[0:00] Ryan Warwick: Is your family richer than your bank account?
[0:02] Shannon Warwick: You know, what does it matter if you gain the whole world but you lose your soul?
[0:05] Ryan Warwick: Gonna live a flourishing life now and later.
[0:09] Shannon Warwick: If you're playing a game, you can't play the game unless you know where the pieces to the game are.
[0:14] Ryan Warwick: We spend great amounts of energy to be disciplined and intentional in our businesses, and then we go home and we shoot from the hip.
[0:23] Shannon Warwick: What do you think that did to relationship?
[0:25] Ryan Warwick: Welcome to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast.
[0:28] Shannon Warwick: Where net worth meets personal worth. I'm Shannon.
[0:31] Ryan Warwick: I'm Ryan. We help families navigate the emotional, relational, and personal realities that money alone can't solve.
[0:38] Shannon Warwick: If you've built wealth but still wonder what it all means, or how to keep your family grounded while protecting your legacy, you're in the right place.
[0:45] Ryan Warwick: We sit down with experts and with you to talk identity, purpose, and connection beyond the balance sheet.
[0:52] Shannon Warwick: Because true wealth isn't measured in dollars. It's measured in the impact we make and the relationships we nurture.
[0:59] Ryan Warwick: So grab a seat.
[1:00] Shannon Warwick: Take a breath.
[1:01] Ryan Warwick: And let's redefine what it means-
[1:03] Shannon Warwick: To be truly wealthy together.
[1:05] Ryan Warwick: This is the Worth-
[1:06] Shannon Warwick: Beyond Wealth Podcast.
[1:08] Ryan Warwick: ... Beyond Wealth Podcast. Is your family richer than your bank account?
[1:13] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[1:14] Ryan Warwick: Building relational wealth, so that's, that's gonna be our topic for today.
[1:18] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[1:18] Ryan Warwick: A little, uh, subtext to that. Money without a strong family is a hollow victory. Break down the habits that turn family members into teammates, not business partners at odds with one another.
[1:32] Shannon Warwick: Right. And I think it's really good to clarify that when we're saying family, we're not saying, you know, a traditional nuclear family, right? It doesn't have to be a, a married situation. It could be you have a, a family, a single parent. It could be-
[1:47] Ryan Warwick: Mm
[1:47] Shannon Warwick: ... someone who's never been married but has a family outside of, you know... Maybe it's not immediate family. Maybe it's the community. Maybe it's friendships.
[1:58] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[1:58] Shannon Warwick: Family can look really different-
[2:00] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[2:00] Shannon Warwick: ... for everybody, right?
[2:01] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[2:02] Shannon Warwick: No less a family.
[2:04] Ryan Warwick: Um, but there are some commonalities to, you know, how to create a strong family, one that as, as we're saying here, one that's richer than just simply a, a bank account, one that-
[2:17] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[2:17] Ryan Warwick: ... is, is more than just a number on a statement.
[2:20] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[2:20] Ryan Warwick: Right? Which is, um, really the root of some of the problems that we're seeing. Um, and so in, in some, some comments leading up, uh, to the conversation. So yeah, this, this question kind of cuts to the heart of things. Um, it's a gut check moment, a chance to reflect on whether the relationships that matter most are thriving as much as the financial wealth you're building. That's really, uh, an interesting, um,
[2:51] Ryan Warwick: comment. So let's be honest. All the money in the world won't mean a thing if your relationships fall apart.
[2:57] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[2:57] Ryan Warwick: You, you say that all the time.
[2:58] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[2:59] Ryan Warwick: You say it a little bit differently, how?
[3:01] Shannon Warwick: Well, I actually just go back to biblical principles, and what does it matter if you gain the whole world but you lose your soul?
[3:06] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[3:07] Shannon Warwick: You know? So-
[3:07] Ryan Warwick: I mean, it's the same idea.
[3:08] Shannon Warwick: It's... Absolutely.
[3:10] Ryan Warwick: It's really interesting as, as we talk about this, this concept of, you know, are, are the relationships that matter most thriving as much as the financial wealth you're building?
[3:21] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[3:21] Ryan Warwick: So here in a book called Money, Possessions, and Eternity by Randy Alcorn,
[3:27] Ryan Warwick: um, he, he says, "Consider the testimonies of five of the wealthiest men who ever lived. John Rockefeller, 'I have made many millions, but they have brought me no happiness.'"
[3:40] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[3:40] Ryan Warwick: And so is that a family that's thriving? Very, very likely not. Um, Vanderbilt says, "The care of $200 million is enough to kill anyone. There is no pleasure in it." And-
[3:54] Shannon Warwick: Notice that he said the care of-
[3:56] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[3:56] Shannon Warwick: ... $200 million.
[3:57] Ryan Warwick: The, the responsibility.
[3:59] Shannon Warwick: The care of the money.
[4:00] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[4:00] Shannon Warwick: So the money wasn't serving him. He was serving his money.
[4:05] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[4:05] Shannon Warwick: Interesting.
[4:07] Shannon Warwick: Hmm.
[4:07] Ryan Warwick: Andrew Carnegie says, "Millionaires seldom smile."
[4:11] Shannon Warwick: Hmm.
[4:12] Ryan Warwick: And then Henry Ford, "I was happier when doing a mechanic's job." I just think that's-
[4:16] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[4:17] Ryan Warwick: ... a, a powerful testimony to this idea because so often, um,
[4:24] Ryan Warwick: money is what's being chased.
[4:26] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[4:27] Ryan Warwick: But is money the thing?
[4:30] Shannon Warwick: Right. It... So the question I think becomes is money the thing, or is money something, right, that, right, that we're using in service, in relationship, right? Something that has meaning behind it, so.
[4:49] Ryan Warwick: And I think money enables-
[4:52] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[4:52] Ryan Warwick: ... the things we're after, actually after.
[4:53] Shannon Warwick: It's not that it's unimportant, but it not is... I- it is not what is ultimately important.
[4:59] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[4:59] Shannon Warwick: Right. Right.
[5:00] Ryan Warwick: So what are... In your estimation, what are people, like, I think all of us, what are we after?
[5:09] Shannon Warwick: I think, um, at the end of the day, relationship. We're all after meaningful relationship, connection.
[5:17] Ryan Warwick: Purpose.
[5:18] Shannon Warwick: Purpose.
[5:19] Ryan Warwick: Joy.
[5:20] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[5:21] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[5:21] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[5:21] Ryan Warwick: So we want those things.
[5:24] Shannon Warwick: Meaningful work.
[5:25] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. We think money is the
[5:30] Ryan Warwick: way to get those other things.
[5:31] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[5:34] Ryan Warwick: I think for many, it's what a lot of the, the book kind of touches on, is
[5:41] Ryan Warwick: we can get lost in the-
[5:43] Shannon Warwick: It-
[5:44] Ryan Warwick: ... in the race.
[5:45] Shannon Warwick: I think that you can start off with really well-meaning intentions. You know, it... But exactly, if you're not coming back to these, this North Star, mission, vision, purpose, values, what you started out with, you can get lost in the weeds.
[6:00] Ryan Warwick: So-
[6:03] Ryan Warwick: ... here is how do we begin to build relational wealth, the kind of wealth that lasts far beyond dollars and cents.
[6:11] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[6:13] Ryan Warwick: And it makes me think about at, at RW we talk about real wisdom-
[6:18] Shannon Warwick: Yep
[6:18] Ryan Warwick: ... real wealth, and real worth.
[6:20] Shannon Warwick: Worth. Mm-hmm, yep.
[6:22] Ryan Warwick: And we connect those by saying, what we bring is worth-
[6:26] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[6:27] Ryan Warwick: ... beyond wealth. And that's what we're talking about here.
[6:30] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely.
[6:31] Ryan Warwick: This, the worth and the meaning and the joy, uh, and the purpose in your family,
[6:41] Ryan Warwick: in your community, in the charities that you support, in the lives that you touch.
[6:45] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[6:46] Ryan Warwick: That is, that is why you want the dollars. The dollars aren't... Nobody sits on their death bed, in my estimat- in, in estimation, and says, "I'm so glad I have a billion dollars in my bank account."
[7:03] Shannon Warwick: Right, I think you've experienced the opposite. I have angst over the amount of wealth that I now have because it will outlive me, and it's to such a point that I'm actually concerned about what could happen with the money, right?
[7:17] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. And, and/or we, we just talked earlier today about, um,
[7:23] Ryan Warwick: for instance even, even Billy Graham, the-
[7:26] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[7:26] Ryan Warwick: ... uh, famous evangelist, uh, said, "My greatest mistake was not spending enough time with my family."
[7:33] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm, sure.
[7:34] Ryan Warwick: Um, and so-
[7:36] Shannon Warwick: Meaningful work
[7:37] Ryan Warwick: Meaningful work.
[7:37] Shannon Warwick: Meaningful work.
[7:37] Ryan Warwick: Yep.
[7:38] Shannon Warwick: Right. But then what did the family side of that look like, right?
[7:42] Ryan Warwick: There, there was, there was impact. So-
[7:44] Shannon Warwick: So
[7:44] Ryan Warwick: ... it's, um,
[7:47] Ryan Warwick: it's actually really an intentional process.
[7:50] Shannon Warwick: Well, it makes me think of Die With Zero, and we should talk about concepts-
[7:55] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[7:56] Shannon Warwick: ... from Die With Zero.
[7:57] Ryan Warwick: Go ahead.
[7:59] Shannon Warwick: Well, I was gonna allow you to just dive right in.
[8:01] Ryan Warwick: Well, just b- before, before Die With Zero, I just think, um,
[8:08] Ryan Warwick: the idea is, is how do...
[8:13] Ryan Warwick: Uh, again, we're, we're trying to connect some ideas in the book-
[8:16] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[8:16] Ryan Warwick: ... because
[8:19] Ryan Warwick: what was kind of an aha moment is that the very principles that everybody employs in their fam- i- in their businesses
[8:31] Ryan Warwick: can be applied to their families.
[8:35] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[8:35] Ryan Warwick: So-
[8:36] Shannon Warwick: Okay
[8:36] Ryan Warwick: ... this concept that we think that
[8:41] Ryan Warwick: the
[8:43] Ryan Warwick: things that businesses do to make them run as a well-oiled machine-
[8:48] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[8:48] Ryan Warwick: ... communication practices, having mission vision values-
[8:52] Shannon Warwick: Right
[8:52] Ryan Warwick: ... uh, key transfer of information, all of those things, you would never think about running a business without them.
[9:00] Shannon Warwick: Right. So-
[9:02] Ryan Warwick: And then as, and, and here's a direct quote from Patrick Lencioni in his book, Three Big Questions for a Frantic Family, "Almost all the executives I've ever met claim that family is more important to them than work. And most of them seem to really mean it." I think it's funny that he added that. "However, every one of those executives, including the one writing this book, would have to admit that they spend inordinately more time thinking about, strategizing about, and meeting about how to run their companies than they do their families."
[9:34] Shannon Warwick: Sure.
[9:35] Ryan Warwick: And so what we're trying to do with The Life Raft,
[9:40] Ryan Warwick: and, you know, as we
[9:43] Ryan Warwick: have the ability to communicate with people, with, with clients-
[9:46] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[9:46] Ryan Warwick: ... with, with people we just talk to in the community, is say, "Look, l- what are those, what are those practices that allow businesses to thrive?"
[9:57] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[9:58] Ryan Warwick: Planning, communication, but I think discipline and intentionality. So in whatever it is, it's
[10:06] Ryan Warwick: w- we, we spend
[10:09] Ryan Warwick: great amounts of energy to be disciplined and intentional in our businesses.
[10:14] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[10:15] Ryan Warwick: And then we go home, and we shoot from the hip.
[10:17] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[10:17] Ryan Warwick: Is that fair?
[10:18] Shannon Warwick: It is, and I, so I think what we're trying to do is, is offer,
[10:23] Shannon Warwick: offer an awareness and then a shift in mindset and some practical ways to implement some change in your home that might be helpful. It's not that it's prescriptive, but it is an offering to say, "Hey, maybe you would consider this." And I think, you know, I wanted to talk about
[10:45] Shannon Warwick: the way that we have approached that with being more in line with what the financial picture looks like, um, and how it directly impacts the relationship in the marriage, in the family. So for us, you know, when you first said, "Oh, well what, what could this look like moving forward with, with, with our, our mission and our, and our vision, and how could we impact, you know, having this purpose in life and giving?" And I admitted, "Well, yeah, I, I thought great, but whatever. I can't even get my mind around that right now. I really need to understand what the financial picture is looking like." So let's ta- let's talk about that. If, so you actually are my financial advisor, right?
[11:29] Ryan Warwick: I try.
[11:30] Shannon Warwick: You try. You try. No, you succeed. There you go. So you're my financial advisor, so interesting situation. So if we were sitting down and I were to say to you,
[11:41] Shannon Warwick: "This is what my financial picture looks like. What can I afford to do? Should I, at the end of my life, have this much money, or should I have experiences? Should I, uh, be able to give? Should I be able to... What can I do? How do I... What would you advise me to do?" Would you say, "I want you to make sure that you have this much money by the time you're this age, and don't touch it. Don't do anything. Safeguard it with your life"? How, how would you advise somebody who's asking, like, "How do I live in relationship? How do I have meaning? How do I-"... have this passion in life, this purpose in life? How does my money, uh, how do I not serve my money, but my money serves me and the people around me, my community?
[12:24] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[12:24] Shannon Warwick: How, how would, how would you advise me?
[12:26] Ryan Warwick: Well, I think most, most people,
[12:32] Ryan Warwick: uh, most people that I've ever talked to, and I, I think most people
[12:37] Ryan Warwick: would think that if they missed out on experiences during their life-
[12:42] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[12:44] Ryan Warwick: ... and left a big pile of money at the end-
[12:47] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[12:48] Ryan Warwick: ... that that was not the right path.
[12:51] Shannon Warwick: But what is the traditional-
[12:54] Ryan Warwick: Yep
[12:54] Shannon Warwick: ... methodology?
[12:55] Ryan Warwick: Right. So there was, um,
[12:58] Ryan Warwick: uh... Well, I'll, I'll just say I think that my industry-
[13:02] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[13:02] Ryan Warwick: ... the wealth advisory industry, too often-
[13:05] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[13:06] Ryan Warwick: ... tells people save, save, save, save, save.
[13:09] Shannon Warwick: Yes. Stockpile. Don't touch it.
[13:10] Ryan Warwick: Restrict.
[13:11] Shannon Warwick: Restrict, yes.
[13:11] Ryan Warwick: You know, don't take that trip.
[13:14] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[13:15] Ryan Warwick: You know, budget. And, and look, there's a place for all of that, but there is a place. So, so then we get to, uh, the planning process, saying restrain spending, restrain spending. We have to, we have to have this
[13:29] Ryan Warwick: bulletproof nest egg because-
[13:31] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[13:32] Ryan Warwick: ... if you're spending $100,000 now
[13:37] Ryan Warwick: and you're 60,
[13:39] Ryan Warwick: I have to know that in 35 years, because prudence would say that I have to plan for you to live to 95-
[13:49] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[13:49] Ryan Warwick: ... even though that's beyond current life expectancy. It's a conservative approach.
[13:53] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[13:54] Ryan Warwick: So I have to know that in 35 years, this $100,000, because of inflation, that you can now effectively, throughout time, keep spending more and more money.
[14:04] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[14:04] Ryan Warwick: Let's call it $300,000.
[14:06] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[14:08] Ryan Warwick: And if the plan, if the software says that that doesn't work-
[14:13] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[14:14] Ryan Warwick: ... then, then that's a failure. So you have to restrain spending today. Don't spend more than 100 'cause when you're 95, you need to spend 300.
[14:24] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[14:24] Ryan Warwick: Right? And there, I think, is, is the mistake. It's not, um,
[14:30] Ryan Warwick: it's not nefarious, and nobody's trying to cause anybody to, to miss out on experiences.
[14:35] Shannon Warwick: No.
[14:35] Ryan Warwick: But what we see practically-
[14:38] Shannon Warwick: I think, I think, I think it's really short, shortsighted.
[14:42] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[14:42] Shannon Warwick: It's limited thinking.
[14:45] Ryan Warwick: We, we also though, I think it's limited thinking because we're missing out on the fact that most people-
[14:54] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[14:54] Ryan Warwick: ... while they may have lifespan-
[14:57] Shannon Warwick: Right
[14:58] Ryan Warwick: ... they don't have healthspan.
[15:00] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[15:00] Ryan Warwick: So
[15:02] Ryan Warwick: in the last, maybe it's 15 years, you know, everybody's different, but you can't go, uh, or you don't want to go on trips to Europe that cost $50,000 a year.
[15:16] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[15:16] Ryan Warwick: You don't want to get on a, a cruise ship and travel around the Caribbean.
[15:20] Shannon Warwick: Or you may want to, but you're not able.
[15:22] Ryan Warwick: Yeah, that's right.
[15:23] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[15:24] Ryan Warwick: Be- because it's hard to get on a plane-
[15:26] Shannon Warwick: Right
[15:27] Ryan Warwick: ... and travel all day, uh, in cramped seats, and on and on and on, right?
[15:31] Shannon Warwick: Sure. Sure.
[15:31] Ryan Warwick: And so, you know, we have seen many people, uh, with millions of dollars in their accounts-
[15:40] Shannon Warwick: Right
[15:40] Ryan Warwick: ... just living on Social Security-
[15:42] Shannon Warwick: It, it-
[15:42] Ryan Warwick: ... because-
[15:42] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[15:43] Ryan Warwick: ... that's-
[15:43] Shannon Warwick: Interesting
[15:43] Ryan Warwick: ... you know, they're now in a h- in a home that, you know, Social Security covers.
[15:48] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[15:48] Ryan Warwick: Maybe it's another thousand or two a month-
[15:50] Shannon Warwick: Right
[15:50] Ryan Warwick: ... post that.
[15:51] Shannon Warwick: So with that in mind and with these, um, lived observations, right,
[15:59] Shannon Warwick: bring that back to the topic of relationship, family. Bring that back to, how do I die with zero, but I'm prudent with my money? So h- br- tie that together.
[16:11] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. And, and I think, I, I don't wanna take the concept of die with zero too far.
[16:16] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[16:16] Ryan Warwick: I do like what he talks about in that book around there is a certain order to maybe how expenses or experiences can be lived throughout life. And-
[16:29] Shannon Warwick: Sure
[16:29] Ryan Warwick: ... and too often, we wait for an experience-
[16:32] Shannon Warwick: Exactly
[16:32] Ryan Warwick: ... until a point in life when it doesn't make sense anymore-
[16:34] Shannon Warwick: Right
[16:34] Ryan Warwick: ... because we didn't have the money when it did make sense.
[16:36] Shannon Warwick: So maybe it was okay-
[16:37] Ryan Warwick: So the-
[16:38] Shannon Warwick: ... to use some money and have the experience-
[16:41] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[16:41] Shannon Warwick: ... when you were able to do that, when your kids were younger, when you had your healthspan, the ability to travel.
[16:48] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[16:48] Shannon Warwick: So it, that's what you mean more.
[16:50] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. I mean-
[16:51] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[16:52] Ryan Warwick: ... I don't, I don't regret any money that we may have ever spent on, uh, trips with the kids because those are now memories we have, right?
[17:02] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[17:02] Ryan Warwick: And we can't take our babies to Disneyland again.
[17:06] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[17:07] Ryan Warwick: Right?
[17:07] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[17:07] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. So is there... Uh, that wasn't an error, right?
[17:12] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[17:12] Ryan Warwick: That wasn't, "Oh, but, you know, that $5,000-
[17:16] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[17:16] Ryan Warwick: ... now would be worth $35,000 because if it had been invested, then that would be"-
[17:22] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[17:22] Ryan Warwick: And that un- I, I think can be, um-
[17:25] Shannon Warwick: Really constrictive
[17:27] Ryan Warwick: ... it, it's constrictive, but it-
[17:28] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[17:28] Ryan Warwick: ... it can also be the mindset of, of some people.
[17:32] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[17:33] Ryan Warwick: Uh, I, I've experienced that-
[17:34] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[17:34] Ryan Warwick: ... with people in this industry. So-
[17:36] Shannon Warwick: Right
[17:36] Ryan Warwick: ... that is, um, restrictive and I think missing the real value in life.
[17:42] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[17:42] Ryan Warwick: That is missing
[17:44] Ryan Warwick: worth beyond wealth.
[17:46] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[17:46] Ryan Warwick: And that's what this, this concept, uh, that we're, that we're bringing out, um, is really about. So, you know, how do we, um... I guess from a process perspective or just, you know, item after item, um, I would say one is, is prioritizing time over money.
[18:05] Shannon Warwick: Okay.
[18:08] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[18:09] Ryan Warwick: Um-
[18:10] Shannon Warwick: And that time directly relating to relationship
[18:16] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. I think it's...
[18:20] Ryan Warwick: You know, we've, we've talked, uh, some about this, this idea of quantity versus quality time-
[18:27] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[18:27] Ryan Warwick: ... right?
[18:27] Shannon Warwick: We have. Mm-hmm.
[18:28] Ryan Warwick: So some people will say, "Hey, uh, I didn't spend a lot of time with my kids, but when I did, it was quality." And I actually think there's... I think it's both/and.
[18:37] Shannon Warwick: Yep.
[18:38] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[18:38] Shannon Warwick: I agree.
[18:39] Ryan Warwick: I, I think,
[18:41] Ryan Warwick: uh, in, in a,
[18:44] Ryan Warwick: a book I was recent- recently reading, uh, a researcher had noted that, uh, in their, in their study, the number one determinant of, um, kids' success in school-
[19:00] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[19:00] Ryan Warwick: ... and behavioral problems were the frequency in which they ate dinner together as a family.
[19:07] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. You, you told me that the other evening, that you had just... Well, I, I was out working. I was doing the yard work.
[19:14] Ryan Warwick: It was beautiful.
[19:14] Shannon Warwick: And you were reading... Oh. Yeah. Well, you, you shared your nugget of knowledge-
[19:20] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[19:20] Shannon Warwick: ... with me. That was nice. But I was shocked by that.
[19:24] Ryan Warwick: That data point.
[19:25] Shannon Warwick: That data point.
[19:26] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[19:27] Shannon Warwick: I mean, everybody always says, you know, dinner with your children, this is so important. You hear this a lot-
[19:31] Ryan Warwick: Right
[19:31] Shannon Warwick: ... from a lot of different, uh, experts or, you know, advice givers or, you know... But-
[19:36] Ryan Warwick: And I think unfortunately it's rarer and rarer
[19:38] Shannon Warwick: ... Yeah, but that it's become an actual studied data point that we can point to in the research and say, it literally has this outcome.
[19:49] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[19:50] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[19:51] Ryan Warwick: So, you know, I don't think it's a choice between quality time, "Hey, when I'm there we're doing really fun things."
[19:58] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[19:59] Ryan Warwick: Um,
[20:01] Ryan Warwick: because just being there matters.
[20:03] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[20:04] Ryan Warwick: I mean, how much does it matter that you tuck in your daughters, right?
[20:10] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.
[20:10] Ryan Warwick: That you're there providing stability.
[20:12] Shannon Warwick: But I think-
[20:13] Ryan Warwick: That I'm there, that, you know, it, it matters.
[20:15] Shannon Warwick: And then, and to, like, talk about money and relationships and activities, you know, I'd even... I, I had a mom come to me one time and just, "What do I, what do I do with this 11-year-old girl who I'm working all the time. I'm a single mom, and I'm working all the time, but how do I, how do I connect with her?"
[20:35] Shannon Warwick: And it was, it was so interesting. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, far from it, but I... Be present. She said, "Just be present."
[20:41] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[20:42] Shannon Warwick: And I, I was telling her, "It, it's not something that you need to spend a lot of money on if, if your budget is tight." But when you're not working, or maybe you don't need to pick up that extra shift, because it doesn't... You don't need to have this exorbitant, you know, amount of money to go take her to a fancy dinner or even on a trip. But what if you literally got her favorite milkshake from her favorite restaurant? What if you gave her, and I'm not kidding, 20 bucks, and you took her to the dollar store, and you said, "Get anything you want." And she lit up like a Christmas tree, like, "Are you, are you kid-" I said, "Yeah." She, she came back to me and was so excited about the impact that these tiny little dollar store recommendations and grab an inexpensive meal, but surprise her.
[21:28] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[21:29] Shannon Warwick: Just surprise her and show up and just be present. It didn't cost much, but it made all the difference that she was just with her.
[21:37] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[21:38] Shannon Warwick: And so-
[21:38] Ryan Warwick: So we too often think it has to be-
[21:40] Shannon Warwick: It has to be-
[21:41] Ryan Warwick: ... big and glamorous and-
[21:42] Shannon Warwick: It has to be big and glamorous, and it doesn't have to be big and glamorous.
[21:44] Ryan Warwick: No. Um...
[21:45] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. Yeah.
[21:47] Ryan Warwick: I think it's a, it's intentionality around, around all of these things.
[21:51] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[21:51] Ryan Warwick: Um...
[21:52] Shannon Warwick: So maybe that trip that you take and you spend some money on it, maybe it's jumping in a camper and going to a national park. You know, it d- it doesn't-
[22:01] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[22:01] Shannon Warwick: ... have to be everybody's in first class going to, like you s- you said, Europe.
[22:06] Ryan Warwick: No.
[22:06] Shannon Warwick: It doesn't have to be that.
[22:07] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm. R- r-
[22:07] Shannon Warwick: If that's something you really get to-
[22:08] Ryan Warwick: Road trips are some of our-
[22:09] Shannon Warwick: Right? Yeah
[22:10] Ryan Warwick: ... our best experiences.
[22:11] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[22:12] Ryan Warwick: Time to listen to-
[22:14] Shannon Warwick: You have a captive audience
[22:14] Ryan Warwick: ... radio shows, uh-
[22:15] Shannon Warwick: So you can put that podcast on you-
[22:16] Ryan Warwick: ... audiobook. Yeah
[22:17] Shannon Warwick: ... yeah, your kids don't wanna listen to.
[22:20] Shannon Warwick: It's awesome.
[22:21] Ryan Warwick: I think they did. Uh-
[22:22] Shannon Warwick: Well, they, they acted as if they were in pain.
[22:26] Ryan Warwick: Um-
[22:27] Shannon Warwick: It was excellent
[22:27] Ryan Warwick: ... but
[22:30] Ryan Warwick: time is... You know, I, I had a professor in college say, "We all have 24 hours."
[22:35] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[22:36] Ryan Warwick: "So we all have the same amount of time."
[22:38] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[22:38] Ryan Warwick: But there's a, there's another side to that coin. N- none of us can get any more time.
[22:44] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[22:44] Ryan Warwick: Right? So but we can make more money,
[22:49] Ryan Warwick: right? We... There's other things we can do more of.
[22:51] Shannon Warwick: That's very interesting.
[22:53] Ryan Warwick: Right? But you can't get more time.
[22:55] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[22:55] Ryan Warwick: So, um, are you investing your time in your spouse and family as intentionally-
[23:02] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[23:02] Ryan Warwick: ... as you invest in your business?
[23:03] Shannon Warwick: So we have some things listed here. Date nights, weekend getaways, uh, uh, something that costs nothing, 30 minutes of uninterrupted conversation.
[23:13] Ryan Warwick: S- that's unheard of.
[23:14] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[23:17] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. Um,
[23:20] Ryan Warwick: it's just, a- again, it's just the in- intentionality-
[23:24] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[23:24] Ryan Warwick: ... um,
[23:26] Ryan Warwick: in that
[23:28] Ryan Warwick: we, we believe, and we've talked about this a lot, families, and, and we call it living in family enterprise, right?
[23:35] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[23:35] Ryan Warwick: We've created an acronym out of the word life.
[23:37] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[23:38] Ryan Warwick: So families thrive-
[23:40] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[23:41] Ryan Warwick: ... when they're treated with the same care and discipline as, as businesses.
[23:45] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[23:45] Ryan Warwick: This doesn't mean you have the same board meetings and the same boring, you know, strategy meetings, and you gotta make it fun, but-
[23:53] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[23:54] Ryan Warwick: ... but we have to stop-
[23:56] Shannon Warwick: But show up
[23:56] Ryan Warwick: ... shooting from the hip at home and giving all of our time and attention-
[24:00] Shannon Warwick: Right
[24:00] Ryan Warwick: ... uh, to, to the family. So, um-
[24:04] Shannon Warwick: So, so then taking it... So we've talked about using money, not just stockpiles, you know, hoard it, stockpile it up until you get to 95 years old, and, "Oh, shoot, we should have gone on that trip. Oh, can't believe we didn't go do this. Oh, right." But then we've flipped it, and we've said you can also spend money i- if you don't have... that $5,000 to spend. Maybe it's 500. How could I also be intentional and have great moments with that? And then let's talk about, too, if we're not talking about spending money, uh, but we're talking about mission statements and shared vision because maybe there's something that we are saving the money for, investing the money for because we have a future plan for that money that revolves around mission and vision and purpose outside of our, ourselves-
[24:54] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm
[24:55] Shannon Warwick: ... and wants to be intentional about, um, family, uh, generational wealth, community, investing outside of
[25:04] Shannon Warwick: this immediate family.
[25:06] Ryan Warwick: Yep. I think that's a, a great point. Um,
[25:11] Ryan Warwick: and I wanna... Y- something you said there brings me back to, uh, a quote from, from one of my strategic coach sessions with Dan Sullivan. He, he... I, I remember it so clearly because he says, "I see every expense as an investment."
[25:26] Shannon Warwick: Yep. Yeah.
[25:27] Ryan Warwick: So-
[25:27] Shannon Warwick: We've tried to adopt that mindset
[25:29] Ryan Warwick: ... so this-
[25:29] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[25:30] Ryan Warwick: ... trip that might be expensive, this, this bicycle that might be expensive or, you know, this dollar store, it- it's an investment-
[25:39] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[25:39] Ryan Warwick: ... into y- into something for some reason.
[25:43] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[25:43] Ryan Warwick: Right? Um-
[25:44] Shannon Warwick: Right
[25:44] Ryan Warwick: ... you can-
[25:44] Shannon Warwick: It's not a sunk cost.
[25:46] Ryan Warwick: No. And-
[25:48] Shannon Warwick: No.
[25:48] Ryan Warwick: In working on the, the exact wording of this, but I think that when money
[25:56] Ryan Warwick: is used to create experiences-
[26:00] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[26:01] Ryan Warwick: ... that are transformed into lifelong memories-
[26:04] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[26:04] Ryan Warwick: ... that that is real worth.
[26:06] Shannon Warwick: So I think these moments of
[26:10] Shannon Warwick: mission, vision, purpose, values, investing, is the investment only for when you're 95 years old, or are you investing in the right now, right?
[26:19] Ryan Warwick: Well, yeah, and, and is it only for when you're 95, or even is it for the next generation? And more and more people are saying, "Not sure I want them... I, I want my kids-
[26:33] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[26:33] Ryan Warwick: ... or I want my grandkids-
[26:34] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[26:35] Ryan Warwick: ... to be harmed by all of that wealth."
[26:38] Shannon Warwick: Well, how... Let's talk about that. How can we prevent that? How can we prevent them from being harmed by wealth?
[26:44] Ryan Warwick: Well, I mean, I, I think that it begins with this being aligned, uh, on a shared vision. So-
[26:50] Shannon Warwick: There you go. Yeah. So education-
[26:52] Ryan Warwick: In a-
[26:52] Shannon Warwick: ... awareness
[26:53] Ryan Warwick: ... in a book called, um, Preparing Heirs.
[26:55] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[26:56] Ryan Warwick: They talk about successful family transitions.
[26:59] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[26:59] Ryan Warwick: And it really comes back to was there a family wealth mission statement?
[27:06] Shannon Warwick: There you go.
[27:06] Ryan Warwick: So is there something that the family-
[27:09] Shannon Warwick: Are we aligned?
[27:10] Ryan Warwick: ... came around-
[27:12] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[27:12] Ryan Warwick: ... and all had a unified mission and purpose-
[27:14] Shannon Warwick: Right
[27:14] Ryan Warwick: ... and said, "Yep, that is what our family's wealth is about."
[27:17] Shannon Warwick: And we can't-
[27:18] Ryan Warwick: So-
[27:18] Shannon Warwick: ... do that unless we are in relationship.
[27:21] Ryan Warwick: Yeah, in, if we're living in family enterprise, right? That-
[27:24] Shannon Warwick: Living in family enterprise
[27:24] Ryan Warwick: ... that takes discipline and intention.
[27:26] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[27:26] Ryan Warwick: There was a clear difference in their study. They studied something like 3,500 families.
[27:30] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[27:31] Ryan Warwick: Clear difference between those who had a mission statement and those who, who did not.
[27:36] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[27:37] Ryan Warwick: And-
[27:38] Shannon Warwick: So I'm-
[27:38] Ryan Warwick: You know-
[27:39] Shannon Warwick: ... teaching my family, I'm working together with my family versus I'm shooting from the hip, and I really hope everything lands well when I toss the dice.
[27:48] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[27:48] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[27:49] Ryan Warwick: So for some families, the book pointed out
[27:52] Ryan Warwick: the only financial guidance that was ever given-
[27:55] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[27:56] Ryan Warwick: ... was,
[27:58] Ryan Warwick: "You're gonna go to college, and you're gonna get a job."
[28:00] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[28:01] Ryan Warwick: Right?
[28:01] Shannon Warwick: I hear that all the time.
[28:01] Ryan Warwick: "And you're gonna learn, and, and you're gonna learn how, you know, the discipline work." Well, a- and that's true. People need to know how to work. But-
[28:09] Shannon Warwick: Right
[28:09] Ryan Warwick: ... in these families of, of significant wealth-
[28:13] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[28:14] Ryan Warwick: ... there was, there was a problem when the mission wasn't communicated.
[28:18] Shannon Warwick: Okay.
[28:18] Ryan Warwick: So maybe, maybe mom or dad, may- maybe just dad or maybe just mom had one-
[28:24] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[28:24] Ryan Warwick: ... but it, it wasn't shared across the whole family.
[28:27] Shannon Warwick: They weren't living in family enterprise.
[28:29] Ryan Warwick: That's right.
[28:30] Shannon Warwick: Okay.
[28:30] Ryan Warwick: It... They weren't regularly communicating.
[28:33] Shannon Warwick: Regularly communicating.
[28:34] Ryan Warwick: Predictable patterns.
[28:35] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[28:36] Ryan Warwick: There, there weren't... Uh, ultimately, there wasn't trust-
[28:40] Shannon Warwick: Hmm
[28:41] Ryan Warwick: ... um, which is really interesting. The, the next generation
[28:47] Ryan Warwick: w- in these families that, uh, they claim, um, had unsuccessful wealth transitions from generation g- to generation-
[28:55] Shannon Warwick: Define unsuccessful wealth transition
[28:57] Ryan Warwick: ... the loss of money to some, the l- l- the loss of control of money to some means is how they def- defined it. So whether that's the economy or a business transition or taxes or-
[29:09] Shannon Warwick: Squandering
[29:10] Ryan Warwick: ... squander- like, somehow the money was lost from generation to generation.
[29:14] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[29:15] Ryan Warwick: Um, so in, in the families where there was a, uh, unsuccessful transition-
[29:21] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[29:21] Ryan Warwick: ... and there was a lack of trust-
[29:22] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[29:22] Ryan Warwick: ... largely due to a lack of communication, where the next generation-
[29:28] Shannon Warwick: Makes sense
[29:28] Ryan Warwick: ... the people inheriting the wealth-
[29:29] Shannon Warwick: Uh-huh
[29:30] Ryan Warwick: ... were angry because, oh look, Dad trusted this attorney, this financial advisor, this insurance agent, this-
[29:40] Shannon Warwick: Hmm
[29:41] Ryan Warwick: ... business broker with all of this knowledge and didn't tell us a thing.
[29:45] Shannon Warwick: Wow.
[29:46] Ryan Warwick: So that lack of trust created generational problems.
[29:51] Shannon Warwick: Wow.
[29:51] Ryan Warwick: And, you know, without a lack of trust, there, there wasn't a commitment-
[29:54] Shannon Warwick: So that-
[29:54] Ryan Warwick: ... around a unified goal
[29:56] Shannon Warwick: ... lack of communication and relationship-
[29:57] Ryan Warwick: There wasn't accountability throughout the family.
[30:00] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[30:00] Ryan Warwick: So in these families where they had a defined mission-
[30:03] Shannon Warwick: Okay
[30:03] Ryan Warwick: ... people were involved in regular, predictable communication patterns.
[30:07] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm. Right.
[30:07] Ryan Warwick: They were being educated, sometimes in formal ways.
[30:11] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[30:11] Ryan Warwick: They, they had, you know, produced education outcomes and curriculums. There was accountability. So-
[30:19] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[30:19] Ryan Warwick: ... in the successful transitions, these are the, um, pro- These are the, the characteristics that, that existed.
[30:27] Shannon Warwick: Okay.
[30:28] Ryan Warwick: So, I mean, some of the things we're already saying, hey, align on a shared vision.
[30:32] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[30:32] Ryan Warwick: Just like your business needs a mission statement, your marriage and family needs a shared vision. What are you building together?
[30:39] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[30:39] Ryan Warwick: What values do you have? What alignment is there?
[30:42] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[30:43] Ryan Warwick: Um, you know, it's, and, and we see this too often, and we don't wanna go too deep into it today, but, you know, it's the i- in the entrepreneurial families, it's the, it's the driving entrepreneur that's kinda leading everything and, you know, leaving the spouse at home to take care of the, the family.
[31:02] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[31:02] Ryan Warwick: Um, we'll, we'll say more about that on, on another episode, but-
[31:06] Shannon Warwick: Sure
[31:06] Ryan Warwick: ... um, without alignment, you know, basically that partner being left behind feels like they're living someone else's story. They're not-
[31:14] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[31:14] Ryan Warwick: ... empowered. They probably don't feel safe and secure.
[31:17] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[31:17] Ryan Warwick: Okay? So
[31:20] Ryan Warwick: just, just like we, we said a minute ago, um, these successful families had, they had mission, they also communicated, right?
[31:27] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[31:27] Ryan Warwick: So communicate like your wealth depends on it. Um-
[31:32] Shannon Warwick: So then can we talk about i- if, if we are in relationship, we are having this family,
[31:39] Shannon Warwick: this family, uh, on mission, living with purpose, um,
[31:45] Shannon Warwick: how can money serve the purpose but not become the purpose, right? How can we use that wealth to reflect our values? And I see here, like, is it investing in experiences? We talked about that. Supporting causes you care about. Is it planning a legacy that goes beyond assets?
[32:04] Shannon Warwick: Uh, what is, how can we have this deeper sense of purpose and connection within the family?
[32:09] Shannon Warwick: H- how could we maybe make some of these goals working with our advisor? How do you maybe do this when you're talking, when you're talking to a couple, and I know often you're saying, "Hey, please make sure that you bring your spouse." I-
[32:24] Ryan Warwick: Mm
[32:24] Shannon Warwick: ... you know, 'cause often, well, just one t- one, one member-
[32:28] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm
[32:28] Shannon Warwick: ... of this team shows up, and so you're, you're really trying to say, "Hey, make sure you bring so and so." How can you sit down and say, "Hey,
[32:39] Shannon Warwick: this is how you can use, this is how you could use your money. This is, here's some thoughts. Here's some ways to give." Do you have conversations like this regularly, or is this something you're hoping to start really implementing?
[32:49] Ryan Warwick: No, I, I think we,
[32:52] Ryan Warwick: we regularly have, I'll, I'll call them purpose-based conversations.
[32:56] Shannon Warwick: Purpose-based.
[32:58] Ryan Warwick: This is not a, a conversation that is strictly about, hey, can we spend $50,000 a year?
[33:05] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[33:07] Ryan Warwick: These are conversations around,
[33:10] Ryan Warwick: okay, are there, are there special needs in the family?
[33:13] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[33:13] Ryan Warwick: Okay, do we need to plan for, um, a special needs trust or, or to make sure that there is something-
[33:20] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[33:20] Ryan Warwick: ... at, left at the end, uh, that's meaningful in order for the care of, of this person?
[33:25] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[33:26] Ryan Warwick: Are there, are there large charitable goals?
[33:30] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[33:30] Ryan Warwick: Are there, um, goals for,
[33:34] Ryan Warwick: um, maybe a second home that all of the family can gather at and-
[33:40] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[33:40] Ryan Warwick: ... and create memories? And so-
[33:41] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[33:42] Ryan Warwick: ... it, how do we, how do we weave that into the plan? Can we, can we effectively, uh, see how that could work? Um-
[33:48] Shannon Warwick: So then there's a way that the money hasn't become the purpose, but the, the wealth is reflecting that family's values.
[33:53] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[33:53] Shannon Warwick: We want this second home because this is where the generations are gathering. We're planning to have this be the place where everybody comes and gets together, and this is where the memories are being made.
[34:04] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[34:04] Shannon Warwick: Okay.
[34:06] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. Yeah, we had, um, some of those situations just in the last, last year or two.
[34:11] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[34:11] Ryan Warwick: Um-
[34:12] Shannon Warwick: What about legacy?
[34:12] Ryan Warwick: And, and those are fun. Um, yeah, so I think legacy, um,
[34:18] Ryan Warwick: can, can kinda mean two things. So, uh, that could be something like a family setting up a foundation-
[34:25] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[34:25] Ryan Warwick: ... that can run in, uh, for, for decades or even perpetuity, uh, that family members can operate in, uh, that they can learn to be givers, that they can, uh, become a pretty visible part of-
[34:41] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[34:41] Ryan Warwick: ... of local or, or even larger society-
[34:45] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[34:45] Ryan Warwick: ... as, as they're able to give.
[34:47] Shannon Warwick: That's great.
[34:47] Ryan Warwick: Um, that, that can be an investment in your family and their ability to, um, navigate this, this world. Um, or it could mean my legacy is, is leaving wealth to my family, and-
[35:01] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[35:01] Ryan Warwick: ... and I feel like they're equipped-
[35:05] Shannon Warwick: To handle that
[35:05] Ryan Warwick: ... we, we did.
[35:06] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[35:06] Ryan Warwick: You know, we took them through the courses. We gave them the right education.
[35:10] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[35:10] Ryan Warwick: We had the conversations. I've seen how they operate-
[35:13] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[35:14] Ryan Warwick: ... with their own money.
[35:15] Shannon Warwick: They've developed-
[35:15] Ryan Warwick: They're mature. They're-
[35:16] Shannon Warwick: Personally, yeah
[35:17] Ryan Warwick: ... they are prudent. They'll be stewards.
[35:20] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[35:20] Ryan Warwick: I'm very comfortable, and that's my legacy.
[35:21] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, their character is reflective of it. Yeah, yeah. That's great.
[35:23] Ryan Warwick: And I think there's, um, those are both great.
[35:26] Shannon Warwick: And then what about, um, examples of supporting causes that maybe a family cares about? What are, have you, have you worked with different families supporting causes in particular?
[35:38] Ryan Warwick: I mean,
[35:40] Ryan Warwick: sure. I mean, there, there are, um, lots of charities near and dear to people's hearts that-
[35:47] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[35:47] Ryan Warwick: ... um, they give generously and, and abundantly into.
[35:52] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[35:52] Ryan Warwick: Um, I mean, it could be the giving of, um... I mean, this is a, I, I don't wanna go and say, well,
[36:01] Ryan Warwick: to be a cause, you know, here, here's somebody who gave a plane to MAF-
[36:06] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[36:06] Ryan Warwick: ... right, as an example.
[36:08] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[36:08] Ryan Warwick: Um, because it, you know, I just, and, and I know you do, too, the, the widow's mite. Like, there's no amount of money-
[36:16] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[36:17] Ryan Warwick: ... so it's, it's when people give from their heart into these various-
[36:20] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely. Yeah
[36:21] Ryan Warwick: ... um, a- and, and that happens all the, all the time.
[36:24] Shannon Warwick: I love that.
[36:24] Ryan Warwick: Um, and really, I think-
[36:31] Ryan Warwick: So, so on this point of communication, the next line here is, "Money is one of the top sources of conflict in marriages."
[36:38] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[36:40] Ryan Warwick: And we talk about this in the book, but giving, so a mindset of giving, a charitable mindset-
[36:46] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[36:46] Ryan Warwick: ... this, this actually is one of the most protective things relative to our relationship with money.
[36:54] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[36:54] Ryan Warwick: And, and likely, if it's protective for each of us individually as we are relating to money, it probably is somewhat protective-
[37:03] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[37:03] Ryan Warwick: ... toward the relational-
[37:04] Shannon Warwick: I think
[37:04] Ryan Warwick: ... you know, that dynamic between w- with money. So-
[37:08] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[37:08] Ryan Warwick: ... I think it's a really important piece of the puzzle is that we are... And this, and this goes back to, what does it mean to build a meaningful life?
[37:17] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[37:18] Ryan Warwick: Um, when we talked with, uh, someone for, for an interview, uh, for the book-
[37:25] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[37:26] Ryan Warwick: ... we were asking this question, and he said, "Well, the existentialists talked about these points," but one of the big one was
[37:34] Ryan Warwick: meaning and purpose beyond yourself.
[37:37] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[37:37] Ryan Warwick: So if, if everything we do is just about looking inward-
[37:42] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[37:43] Ryan Warwick: ... I think that ends in
[37:46] Ryan Warwick: despair. It- life isn't about just, how do we make ourselves happy today?
[37:50] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[37:51] Ryan Warwick: And I think that's when, you know, there's lots of evidence, I'm not just speculating, there's lots of evidence that that ends up in, in a mess. So, um, giving is-
[38:02] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[38:03] Ryan Warwick: ... so critical.
[38:05] Shannon Warwick: So we're talking about, um,
[38:08] Shannon Warwick: relationship and, and kind of these really big touch points of, how are we living in mission and purpose? How are we, um, creating memories? How are we reflecting values, investing in experiences, supporting causes, generational, we're talking about all these. Let's talk about something really practical. There's two things I, two examples I'm thinking of, um, when I'm thinking about just in the daily interactions within, within the m- l- let's say a marriage.
[38:36] Ryan Warwick: Okay.
[38:37] Shannon Warwick: Let's say a marriage. The daily interactions around money, we can behave so poorly or so well when it comes to just basic money conversations. There's one example I'm thinking of. This was a wealthy family, and, um, the story that was relayed was that this gentleman
[39:00] Shannon Warwick: was so critical of the money that his wife would spend on groceries, so critical of the money his wife would spend when the kids needed something like summer flip-flops, right? These are not... The- these are practical, needed items, right? Food, shoes, but so critical.
[39:20] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[39:20] Shannon Warwick: What do you think that did to a relationship?
[39:23] Shannon Warwick: Do you think it built trust?
[39:24] Ryan Warwick: Well, it harmed it.
[39:25] Shannon Warwick: It was harmful.
[39:25] Ryan Warwick: And, and I know you're talking about a different story that somebody told you-
[39:30] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[39:30] Ryan Warwick: ... um, but I read something similar.
[39:33] Shannon Warwick: Uh-huh.
[39:34] Ryan Warwick: And, and it said, "H- here's the problem, though." So on the one hand-
[39:39] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[39:39] Ryan Warwick: ... there's that emotional issue around, you know, "Don't spend any money."
[39:45] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[39:46] Ryan Warwick: But on the other hand, in, in the book it said, "But I was berated if we didn't have first class tickets." So it was damned if you do, damned if you don't.
[39:55] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[39:56] Ryan Warwick: I can't spend any money-
[39:58] Shannon Warwick: Uh
[39:58] Ryan Warwick: ... but then we have to have the best.
[39:59] Shannon Warwick: I'm hogtied.
[39:59] Ryan Warwick: So-
[40:00] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[40:00] Ryan Warwick: ... so then-
[40:01] Shannon Warwick: Can't
[40:01] Ryan Warwick: ... I think that is-
[40:03] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[40:03] Ryan Warwick: ... um, kinda to the root of, of this next i- invest in emotional connection. So-
[40:08] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[40:09] Ryan Warwick: ... right? That is the lack of. So that is using money as a, um, weapon.
[40:16] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[40:16] Ryan Warwick: You know, it's, it's weaponized control of money-
[40:19] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[40:19] Ryan Warwick: ... versus, you know, how can, how can wealth be used relationally? How can we-
[40:26] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[40:28] Ryan Warwick: ... um, how can we grow together? How can we invest in each other in our family?
[40:31] Shannon Warwick: So that's really sweet, 'cause I'm thinking of the next example, and I remember a gentleman, again, this time saying, "Hey," c- c- calling out... Actually, he was calling out other gentlemen, saying, "Hey, be aware that, that when you're, when you're planning, when you're thinking about money, when you're whatever it happens to be, be aware to be kind to your wife. Does she need to have some funds to be able to get her hair cut? Does she need to have some funds to be able to do something that's, you know, enjoyable to her or helps her to, you know, invest in herself a little bit?" That c- you know? So what do you think that that did for a relationship?
[41:10] Ryan Warwick: Oh, I, I mean, it undoubtedly, um, improved.
[41:16] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[41:17] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, yeah. So just some common, just, you know, maybe some, maybe just some-
[41:22] Ryan Warwick: Some of these things are, are not that complex.
[41:26] Shannon Warwick: They're not, but I think they're pain points.
[41:29] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[41:31] Ryan Warwick: I love the, uh, quote, the, the saying, "It's simple, but it's not easy."
[41:38] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[41:39] Ryan Warwick: So some of these things are just-
[41:41] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[41:42] Ryan Warwick: ... simple.
[41:43] Shannon Warwick: But we, we can take that for granted, right? That it can be a real struggle for somebody. And maybe-
[41:48] Ryan Warwick: Yeah, especially when you're off running the business.
[41:52] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[41:53] Ryan Warwick: You're up at 4:30 AM to get to the office by 5:30 AM-
[41:57] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[41:58] Ryan Warwick: ... to only get home at 7:00. You're tired. You expect everything at home to be running like clockwork because-
[42:04] Shannon Warwick: Right
[42:04] Ryan Warwick: ... your role was over here taking care of the business and making the money, and so we need everything... So, so sometimes then those simple things get missed because you're just in the grind.
[42:16] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[42:16] Ryan Warwick: Right?
[42:17] Shannon Warwick: Sure.
[42:17] Ryan Warwick: And so I think in both counts then, we, we say, how do we, how do we allow for some grace in there?
[42:26] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[42:26] Ryan Warwick: And so how do we,
[42:28] Ryan Warwick: how do we connect
[42:30] Ryan Warwick: emotionally and, and, you know, in those moments say, "Hey, w-" And I'm sure there's some, we should have a counselor on, there's some great diffusing terms and, and ways of, of saying it. But those are the points that become heated arguments-
[42:46] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[42:46] Ryan Warwick: ... that become frustration, that become-
[42:48] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[42:48] Ryan Warwick: ... identity forming-
[42:50] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[42:50] Ryan Warwick: ... um,
[42:52] Ryan Warwick: comments made in passing, in, in anger that, n- that could have long-term impact-
[42:57] Shannon Warwick: Right
[42:57] Ryan Warwick: ... even through generations if-
[42:59] Shannon Warwick: Right
[42:59] Ryan Warwick: ... so I, I think that's, that's all
[43:03] Ryan Warwick: really important.
[43:04] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[43:04] Ryan Warwick: Um,
[43:07] Ryan Warwick: so then
[43:09] Ryan Warwick: we have here build a life raft together. So,
[43:14] Ryan Warwick: you know, so again, we're talking about how do we, um...
[43:18] Ryan Warwick: The reason we're doing this project
[43:23] Ryan Warwick: is because money touches every area of life.
[43:29] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[43:29] Ryan Warwick: I mean, this is why
[43:31] Ryan Warwick: in the Bible
[43:33] Ryan Warwick: money is mentioned, money and material possessions are mentioned 2,300 times.
[43:38] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[43:39] Ryan Warwick: Right? More than any other topic. So there's something there. Why is that? It's because it touches every aspect of our life.
[43:48] Shannon Warwick: Sure.
[43:48] Ryan Warwick: And so when we sit here and say, "Hey, how do we..." Uh, is your... Here's the question, is your family richer than your bank account?
[43:58] Ryan Warwick: Okay, well, it kind of starts with
[44:02] Ryan Warwick: understanding shared knowledge, shared purpose, okay? But why are we starting with, with the, um, wealth side in, in this life raft project?
[44:16] Shannon Warwick: Without the safety and security and the understanding of the money in your home, how do you get beyond that into mission, vision, purpose, values, creating this generational
[44:32] Shannon Warwick: wealth health as you're moving forward? You can't do that, so it's foundational.
[44:37] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[44:39] Ryan Warwick: In other words, if I don't understand what we have-
[44:44] Shannon Warwick: Right
[44:45] Ryan Warwick: ... and you say,
[44:47] Ryan Warwick: "Hey, we're going to go give. Let's think about this together,"
[44:52] Ryan Warwick: and I'm thinking $500 and you're thinking a million dollars-
[44:56] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[44:56] Ryan Warwick: ... well, we're not even on the same planet.
[44:58] Shannon Warwick: So we talked about that the other day. We referred to it as a game. If you're playing a game-
[45:03] Ryan Warwick: Yep
[45:03] Shannon Warwick: ... with somebody,
[45:05] Shannon Warwick: you can't play the game unless you know first
[45:09] Shannon Warwick: how do you play the game, what are the rules, but how do you even do that if you don't even know where the pieces to the game are, right? So we have to know where are the pieces, what do they do, how do we play the game.
[45:23] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[45:23] Shannon Warwick: How does everybody understand this game, right?
[45:27] Ryan Warwick: And, and that's the root of what we think is different about some of the life raft tools is we're trying to create a narrative-
[45:35] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[45:35] Ryan Warwick: ... around story, narrative.
[45:38] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[45:39] Ryan Warwick: We learn through story.
[45:40] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[45:40] Ryan Warwick: Okay? So when we're trying to transfer knowledge to the parties in our family that don't have-
[45:45] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[45:45] Ryan Warwick: ... that same level of, of education and knowledge, we wanna bring it up, we wanna be on the same playing field because we wanna be able to have purpose-based conversations.
[45:54] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[45:54] Ryan Warwick: So again, the, the end goal isn't, "Oh, great, you understand what our balance sheet is. Now let's move on."
[46:00] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. No.
[46:01] Ryan Warwick: But that-
[46:01] Shannon Warwick: Like, that was just the beginning
[46:02] Ryan Warwick: ... that's just the thing-
[46:04] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[46:04] Ryan Warwick: ... that enables-
[46:06] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[46:06] Ryan Warwick: ... all of the fun stuff.
[46:07] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[46:08] Ryan Warwick: Right? N- now we can dream together because, you know, we've, we've talked to people who, uh, have made different comments and, you know, one spouse just like, "Let's give this amount," and they're like, "How can we possibly do that? It doesn't even make sense."
[46:21] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[46:21] Ryan Warwick: We can... So like, like-
[46:22] Shannon Warwick: And the other one's going, "Well, how do you not know we can do that?"
[46:24] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[46:25] Shannon Warwick: But did you ever share the information?
[46:27] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. Yep. Lack of-
[46:28] Shannon Warwick: No
[46:28] Ryan Warwick: ... so back to-
[46:29] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[46:29] Ryan Warwick: ... the preparing heirs data, lack of communication-
[46:32] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[46:32] Ryan Warwick: ... not through generations, just even beginning with-
[46:35] Shannon Warwick: Beginning
[46:35] Ryan Warwick: ... among spouses.
[46:36] Shannon Warwick: There you go. Yeah.
[46:37] Ryan Warwick: Um, and so-
[46:39] Shannon Warwick: So-
[46:39] Ryan Warwick: Go ahead.
[46:40] Shannon Warwick: So this question, go back to the question again if you would.
[46:43] Ryan Warwick: So the question we're really diving into throughout the day is, is your family richer than your bank account?
[46:52] Shannon Warwick: So we start with the bank account with the life raft.
[46:54] Ryan Warwick: Yep. Not just the bank account, but we'll call it wealth. Yep.
[46:57] Shannon Warwick: Right. Just saying.
[46:59] Ryan Warwick: Yep.
[46:59] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. That's the question, so we'll say the bank account is my life raft. I know it's worth this much now, but is my... We want your family to be richer, so then the encouragement there would be, okay, that's step one, now move into these other phases.
[47:18] Ryan Warwick: Yep.
[47:18] Shannon Warwick: This mission and purpose, this celebration and moments, move into all of that so that the answer to that is a resounding yes. Yes, it is, and that bank account serves the other components of my family.
[47:34] Ryan Warwick: Yep. We think a-
[47:36] Shannon Warwick: That's-
[47:36] Ryan Warwick: ... a bank account can become the launchpad-
[47:42] Shannon Warwick: Right
[47:42] Ryan Warwick: ... bank account being the, the life raft, wealth-
[47:44] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[47:44] Ryan Warwick: ... you know, everything in your, in your family's-
[47:47] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[47:47] Ryan Warwick: ... uh, orbit of, of-
[47:49] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[47:50] Ryan Warwick: ... assets and-
[47:51] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[47:51] Ryan Warwick: ... and, uh, and money, um, can become the launchpad for a flourishing life living in-
[47:57] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[47:57] Ryan Warwick: ... family enterprise. Again back-
[47:59] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[47:59] Ryan Warwick: ... to this idea,
[48:01] Ryan Warwick: family, we believe
[48:05] Ryan Warwick: family can flourish, I don't wanna say should. I wanna say should, but I'm not gonna should on people. So family can flourish when given the same intentionality and discipline-
[48:18] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[48:19] Ryan Warwick: ... as we all give our businesses.
[48:22] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[48:22] Ryan Warwick: And again, I, I just, and, and you're seeing this too, but we're seeing so many successful business owners, successful executives, successful pastors-
[48:34] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[48:34] Ryan Warwick: ... they get to a certain point-
[48:35] Shannon Warwick: CEO
[48:35] Ryan Warwick: ... and they're saying-
[48:37] Ryan Warwick: I've succeeded, but my gosh, at what cost?
[48:41] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[48:41] Ryan Warwick: I've, I've climbed the ladder of success, and I'm standing on the wrong building.
[48:47] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[48:47] Ryan Warwick: I- I've lost-
[48:48] Shannon Warwick: Over and over
[48:48] Ryan Warwick: ... this or this. I've... My health is-
[48:50] Shannon Warwick: I've almost lost my marriage
[48:51] Ryan Warwick: ... I'm not having fun anymore.
[48:52] Shannon Warwick: My, my kids-
[48:52] Ryan Warwick: Like, it, it's-
[48:53] Shannon Warwick: ... don't wanna talk to me. My... Yeah.
[48:55] Ryan Warwick: So-
[48:56] Shannon Warwick: I remember
[48:56] Ryan Warwick: ... you know that, that old adage, um, the journey is more important than the destination is so true.
[49:02] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[49:03] Ryan Warwick: When you're... You know, I, I remember the person who told me that. Um, I was probably 25, and I'm like, "Yeah, that's easy for you to say. You- you're at the, you know, you're at kind of the peak, and you've, you've arrived, so I get it. You're just..." But, but it is true.
[49:23] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. It is.
[49:25] Ryan Warwick: Y-
[49:26] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely. So I think the resounding answer is
[49:30] Shannon Warwick: it should be, it should your family richer than your bank account.
[49:34] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[49:34] Shannon Warwick: I hope so.
[49:35] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[49:36] Shannon Warwick: And how can we help
[49:39] Shannon Warwick: create awareness around that, and how can we help implement some tools and, and help to shift a mindset so that you can answer yes to that question?
[49:54] Ryan Warwick: Thank you for listening to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast. If you liked this podcast, please like, share, and subscribe. The highest compliment you could give would be sharing this with a friend. Thank you. The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or any specific security. RW Investment Management, LLC, DBA, RW Investment Management, is a registered investment advisor. Testimonials given by current clients are not in exchange for compensation. This document is solely for informational purposes. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where RWIM and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Investing involves risk and possible loss of principal capital. No advice may be rendered by RWIM unless a client service agreement is in place. RWIM is not a legal or tax advisor.