[0:00] Shannon Warwick: When it hit the fan and I said, "Hold on. This doesn't feel safe at all. If something happens, I'm, I'm gonna be in the middle of an ocean trying desperately to get to land. I need the life raft."
[0:11] Ryan Warwick: Are you giving your family the same intentionality that you're giving your business?
[0:16] Shannon Warwick: "I'm your financial advisor." And my response was, "Well, a lot of good that will do me, buddy, if you're dead."
[0:21] Ryan Warwick: Never transferring knowledge. Never-
[0:22] Shannon Warwick: Never transfer... Yeah. We can't disable someone.
[0:25] Ryan Warwick: That is the perfect illustration of the inconsistency of we do all these things in our business, but we don't have them in place at home.
[0:33] Shannon Warwick: If something happened to you, God forbid, I could claim.
[0:35] Ryan Warwick: I have more freedom. I have more enjoyment. We can draw closer together. Welcome to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast.
[0:43] Shannon Warwick: Where net worth meets personal worth. I'm Shannon.
[0:46] Ryan Warwick: I'm Ryan. We help families navigate the emotional, relational, and personal realities that money alone can't solve.
[0:53] Shannon Warwick: If you've built wealth but still wonder what it all means or how to keep your family grounded while protecting your legacy, you're in the right place.
[1:01] Ryan Warwick: We sit down with experts and with you to talk identity, purpose, and connection beyond the balance sheet.
[1:08] Shannon Warwick: Because true wealth isn't measured in dollars. It's measured in the impact we make and the relationships we nurture.
[1:14] Ryan Warwick: So grab a seat.
[1:15] Shannon Warwick: Take a breath.
[1:16] Ryan Warwick: And let's redefine what it means-
[1:18] Shannon Warwick: To be truly wealthy together.
[1:20] Ryan Warwick: This is the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast.
[1:25] Shannon Warwick: So today we're going to discuss the myth, if you will, around I have to be the financial protector, since some people get into this feeling of having to be the end-all be-all, the financial protector, the one who holds all the cards, and why that can potentially be damaging to relationships as opposed to what the heart of it may be, which is caregiving.
[1:49] Ryan Warwick: Sure. And so I th- uh, a- as we were thinking about this topic, and we've talked about this a little bit, um,
[1:57] Ryan Warwick: we thought the, the best way to open this is to talk about the project that we've been working on.
[2:02] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[2:03] Ryan Warwick: Um, the, the catalyst or impetus for that project, our experience-
[2:09] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[2:09] Ryan Warwick: ... uh, which part of it was this idea of, um, going it alone, and, and not for bad reasons, but, but-
[2:20] Shannon Warwick: Right
[2:21] Ryan Warwick: ... to be, to be good, to be a protector, to take stress away, to do all the, all the right things. Um, so do you wanna talk for a minute about, um, this work that we're doing called Life Raft?
[2:36] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, absolutely. So Life Raft, I jokingly refer to it as, uh, being born from a panic attack, mine. Uh, not a full panic attack, but a, a, a really j- just intense moment of realization that
[2:54] Shannon Warwick: we were in a space
[2:57] Shannon Warwick: where the business had grown, you know, all of these things had, had really taken off. And we have a, uh, complex... Well, I'll let you kind of describe what our investment portfolio looks like.
[3:15] Shannon Warwick: And, um, I just realized, okay, I, I think there's a lot here that even though I'm a- I'm aware and have been more involved maybe than a lot of spouses, you know, we've bounced ideas off of each other, you've come to me, I've, I've done proofreading for you, um,
[3:32] Shannon Warwick: dove in trying to really vision,
[3:36] Shannon Warwick: I still realize there is so much going on that I am unaware of, or have
[3:44] Shannon Warwick: a small amount of awareness around, but I don't know what, what the, the full span is, you know? And as we kind of dove into that we realized, okay, you'd been... You are my financial advisor, but what did I say to you when you said, "Oh, well, who, who would I go to, Ryan, if something happened to you?" Your response was-
[4:02] Ryan Warwick: Hmm
[4:02] Shannon Warwick: ... "Well, I'm your financial advisor." And my response was, "Well, a lot of good that will do me, buddy, if you're dead." Well, that wasn't very nice, but that's how I felt at the moment. You're just being honest.
[4:13] Ryan Warwick: Sure.
[4:14] Shannon Warwick: So this world of, um, vulnerability opens up, right? And there, there's a lot of strength in the vulnerability that can open up, right? And so you became vulnerable saying, "Oh, I am so sorry. I didn't realize this. Let me open this, this world up more to you." I had to become vulnerable because I had to s- admit I- I'm really concerned right now, and I need to learn. And so a lot of intentional discomfort came out of this process.
[4:45] Shannon Warwick: Um, and, and, and, and I think one thing too, um, that was really powerful for me as we created this, what we call the life raft,
[4:54] Shannon Warwick: you apologized because none of this was intentional, right?
[4:59] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[4:59] Shannon Warwick: You weren't... Y- you thought you were doing me a service, a favor. You were blessing my life because you were, as you put it, "I was... I thought I was taking care of you," and you were.
[5:10] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[5:11] Shannon Warwick: 100%.
[5:13] Shannon Warwick: But there was a realization for both of us that caring for someone is not, um, never asking them to have awareness, right? Never asking... Y- we can't-
[5:27] Ryan Warwick: Never transferring knowledge. Never-
[5:28] Shannon Warwick: Never transfer... Yeah. We can't, we can't disable someone. That, that was what we kind of came to. And there has to be willingness for both partners to participate.
[5:38] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[5:39] Shannon Warwick: Once the awareness is there, there's a choice. So we created this life raft because I said, "I feel as if I am drowning in the middle of the ocean, or at least I'm s- I'm swimming and I'm trying and I don't know what to do. I need a life raft. What happens to me if something happens to you? I won't know what to do." And so the life raft was a document
[6:02] Shannon Warwick: That create-- that, that created a space for me to have knowledge, peace,
[6:11] Shannon Warwick: and it was something that was-- it was an educational tool. All of the data was there that I would need to be able to access. You know, and, and it really got nitty-gritty after a while. We, we realized as we went through the process, well what's... How do I, how do I access that account? Oh, well, whose phone number does it go to? Oh, it goes to your phone number. Oh, is it dual authentication? Oh, whose email? All of these things came out, and we realized how many things could potentially be very locked down to me.
[6:39] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[6:39] Shannon Warwick: That access could be difficult.
[6:43] Shannon Warwick: And so we had to step back and start kind of unraveling that.
[6:49] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. And, and some things not even accessible because there isn't reporting on them or-
[6:56] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[6:56] Ryan Warwick: ... um, or as you, as you said, "Okay, well, we have, uh, this, these documents. We have this plan. We have this or that." "And where is it?" "It's in this file." "Oh, i- in the office?"
[7:09] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[7:10] Ryan Warwick: "Okay, well which office?" And, and so it just started to bring a lot of light to the, the reality that while we, and we say in, in the book, we weren't the cobbler with no shoes.
[7:25] Shannon Warwick: No. And we had a plan. We did the work.
[7:29] Ryan Warwick: Sure.
[7:29] Shannon Warwick: Things were in place.
[7:30] Ryan Warwick: And we had had some conversations.
[7:32] Shannon Warwick: Some conversations.
[7:33] Ryan Warwick: But those conversations coming in-
[7:37] Shannon Warwick: Spurts
[7:38] Ryan Warwick: ... a car ride-
[7:39] Shannon Warwick: Right
[7:39] Ryan Warwick: ... coming in a five-minute spurt, uh, as one of us is running out the door to a meeting or-
[7:47] Shannon Warwick: Or-
[7:47] Ryan Warwick: ... driving to school or just-
[7:49] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[7:49] Ryan Warwick: ... haphazardly when some issue would pop up.
[7:52] Shannon Warwick: Well, I would get an email, a DocuSign. "What is this? You need to tell me, what am I signing? I'm not signing..."
[7:58] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. Just sign it.
[7:58] Shannon Warwick: "Oh, right. That, yeah, just sign it. No, just sign it. I've taken care of everything." But I didn't feel comfortable with that.
[8:03] Ryan Warwick: You were, you were comfortable in the sense that there was trust.
[8:06] Shannon Warwick: I trusted you.
[8:07] Ryan Warwick: But there wasn't-
[8:08] Shannon Warwick: What? Yeah
[8:09] Ryan Warwick: ... comfort and, and, and then the awareness started to come-
[8:13] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[8:13] Ryan Warwick: ... that there wasn't, um-
[8:16] Shannon Warwick: An understanding
[8:17] Ryan Warwick: ... an understanding, and how would I handle this if, if I was on my own?
[8:22] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. And, and so that's where this starts to... It was kind of a, a positive snowball effect, you know? We say this, and usually we say, "Oh, it was a snowball effect," and what have you, but this was positive.
[8:35] Ryan Warwick: And, and before we go into,
[8:37] Ryan Warwick: like, specifically diving into this, this question today-
[8:42] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[8:42] Ryan Warwick: ... I mean, if we, if we start to say, okay, then why did we go from, "Let's create a document" to, "Let's write a book about this. Let's, let's call it Life Raft. Let's maybe even create a, a service-
[8:54] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[8:55] Ryan Warwick: ... at RWD to-
[8:56] Shannon Warwick: Let's do a podcast, you know.
[8:58] Ryan Warwick: ... to speak to this issue.
[8:59] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[8:59] Ryan Warwick: And, and there was just all of the sudden, the, the world started to open up around us-
[9:06] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[9:07] Ryan Warwick: ... s- and, and this issue was popping up-
[9:09] Shannon Warwick: Everywhere
[9:09] Ryan Warwick: ... everywhere.
[9:11] Shannon Warwick: And we even said, "Okay, if, if two people who have been intentional, um, are communicating,"
[9:22] Shannon Warwick: financial advisor, I mean, we, we, we were not,
[9:27] Shannon Warwick: we were not uneducated about the things going on, right? And we had awareness to a degree.
[9:34] Shannon Warwick: But we realized if we were in a position to where we felt this
[9:39] Shannon Warwick: uncomfortable and we realized this was a problem or it was a potential problem,
[9:46] Shannon Warwick: you-- then what were other people experiencing? That was a big question mark for us. What are other people experiencing who are not even in this position of even though we're concerned and we realize we have a lot of holes in the raft right now that we need to shore up, what about people who aren't coming from a position of strength-
[10:04] Ryan Warwick: Mm
[10:04] Shannon Warwick: ... initially? That's where we said, "Well, we kinda need to open this up."
[10:08] Ryan Warwick: F- first and foremost, we started to see this, this reality that there's a drift.
[10:13] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[10:14] Ryan Warwick: Right? There's a drift between spouses in these relationships, and we call it entrepreneurial relationships.
[10:23] Ryan Warwick: Um, we would, uh...
[10:27] Ryan Warwick: I, I believe that extends to anybody who is driving hard in, in life. So we-- I think we see this in, in pastors.
[10:40] Ryan Warwick: Um, I, I think we see this in executives at large corporations. Uh, so it doesn't just have to be somebody who is the business owner. Um, there are, uh, lots and lots of situations. And, and the question becomes,
[10:59] Ryan Warwick: are you giving your family the same intentionality that you're giving your business?
[11:06] Shannon Warwick: Well, I think that is so if we can bring that back to the protector. So the ca- these are caregivers. These are doers.
[11:16] Shannon Warwick: These are people who are used to shouldering burdens, the, kind of the do it all guy. A lot of times men. Can be women as well. And so-
[11:28] Ryan Warwick: I think the data would still say we're something like, in, in, in my personal experience in, in groups I've been in, eight- probably eighty percent men are in this position of, of leader of-
[11:39] Shannon Warwick: Leader of-
[11:39] Ryan Warwick: ... businesses
[11:40] Shannon Warwick: ... whatever it happens to be, right. And so high-performing.
[11:46] Shannon Warwick: Do you think... I guess I'll just ask you, do you think that you felt a burden to be the protector? Would you, would you not use the word burden? Would you say, um, a responsibility to be the pr- probably more responsibility, I think.
[12:01] Ryan Warwick: Sure.
[12:03] Shannon Warwick: And so- When there's this responsibility or burden or calling or whatever it happens to be for the individual, and maybe it changes over time. Maybe it starts as a responsibility and it turns into a burden. Um,
[12:19] Shannon Warwick: but do you feel that that can be really isolating?
[12:22] Shannon Warwick: Instead of inviting a partner in, instead of inviting a family in, instead of having a community around... You know, we were talking about in, in particular, the, the wealth or the, the, the workings of the finances in our home. Not even long-term wealth, just how does it work? What does... What, what are these investments? Well, if I don't know what these investments are, then I can't participate in... A- and we weren't...
[12:53] Shannon Warwick: I would say in past, I'm... it was more of a you just handled it, but then it did start to become, even before this realization, before LifeRaft, it did start to become more invitational. "Hey, I was thinking of investing in this. Would you come to this meeting with me? Hey, you know, what do you think about this?" And I remember one time you actually sat down and said, "The next time we make an investment, why don't you decide what we're going to do?" And I cried-
[13:16] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm
[13:17] Shannon Warwick: ... because I had never been asked that question. That wasn't something that had ever... I, I, I knew that I had say or we could have a discussion, but I would always probably go to a space of un- unless I felt really checked and I said, "I really feel like this is something we need to stop and pause or consider," you know, unless there was a discernment there. But I would probably default to, okay, well, if all of the boxes are checking out and I don't have, you know, a discomfort in this, I- I'll just default to what Ryan thinks is best because I just trust you.
[13:49] Ryan Warwick: Sure.
[13:49] Shannon Warwick: Right?
[13:51] Ryan Warwick: I think you said something in- interesting there, um, that, that we shouldn't overlook, um, and that is in business,
[14:01] Ryan Warwick: w- we create all sorts of structure for protection. We-
[14:05] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[14:05] Ryan Warwick: ... we create, uh-
[14:06] Shannon Warwick: It's necessary
[14:07] Ryan Warwick: ... there, there's a model out there that in entrepreneurial businesses you have, uh, somebody who's a visionary. That visionary might come up with 10 ideas a day-
[14:17] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[14:17] Ryan Warwick: ... uh, or more. One of them might even be good.
[14:21] Ryan Warwick: And so that person-
[14:23] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[14:23] Ryan Warwick: ... needs somebody working with them-
[14:27] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[14:28] Ryan Warwick: ... in this case called an integrator-
[14:30] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[14:31] Ryan Warwick: ... who has the ability to discern, has the ability to say-
[14:36] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[14:37] Ryan Warwick: ... "That's a good idea. That's not. That's not. That's not. We gotta stay focused." Otherwise, businesses can get-
[14:44] Shannon Warwick: Ping pong
[14:45] Ryan Warwick: ... ping pong, stretched-
[14:47] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[14:47] Ryan Warwick: ... um, a- and ultimately damaged.
[14:50] Shannon Warwick: Sure.
[14:50] Ryan Warwick: So, so I don't believe that the family model is any different.
[14:56] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[14:57] Ryan Warwick: And I think as we, as we've started to build out the LifeRaft and, and again drawing back to this, this entrepreneurial drift-
[15:05] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[15:05] Ryan Warwick: ... this drift between spouses, this person who is constantly building and growing-
[15:11] Shannon Warwick: Yep
[15:11] Ryan Warwick: ... and, and has this, um, again, this, this persona of d- of drive.
[15:16] Shannon Warwick: Right. And I am caring for you because I'm building this for, for our family. This is-
[15:22] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[15:22] Shannon Warwick: ... I'm taking care of it. You don't have to worry about it.
[15:24] Ryan Warwick: Right.
[15:24] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[15:26] Ryan Warwick: But this person back here-... doesn't always feel that.
[15:30] Shannon Warwick: Nope.
[15:30] Ryan Warwick: Right?
[15:31] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[15:31] Ryan Warwick: Because maybe if we're not communicating, maybe this person thinks that taking care of
[15:41] Ryan Warwick: this person, maybe entrepreneur thinks taking care of spouse means accumulating more wealth.
[15:48] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[15:48] Ryan Warwick: But maybe the spouse thinks getting some of their time is, is more valuable. Maybe we, maybe we have enough. Maybe contentment is our next step. So those conversations can happen-
[15:59] Shannon Warwick: Or I'm handling all of the, I'm handling all of the decisions. I'm handling all of the business. I'm handling the mundane. I'm handling the tasks, and, and you, you don't wanna know about that.
[16:10] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[16:10] Shannon Warwick: I just assume that you don't wanna know about that.
[16:13] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[16:13] Shannon Warwick: I assume that you don't want to be bothered by that. That's nothing that you're really interested in.
[16:18] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[16:19] Shannon Warwick: Right? There are so many assumptions there.
[16:21] Ryan Warwick: Yep.
[16:22] Shannon Warwick: But what if that's not true
[16:25] Shannon Warwick: and it's really creating angst?
[16:29] Ryan Warwick: Well, and, and at a minimum, uncertainty because-
[16:33] Shannon Warwick: Yep. Yeah
[16:34] Ryan Warwick: ... they don't know, and, and we see all the time families who have plenty-
[16:41] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[16:41] Ryan Warwick: ... but not everybody in the family knows that.
[16:43] Shannon Warwick: Right. So they may ask the question, are we okay?
[16:45] Ryan Warwick: Yep.
[16:46] Shannon Warwick: Are we going to be okay?
[16:47] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. So is there a... I, I think a part of this and, and look, our... We, we want our speech to be absolutely seasoned with grace because we get it.
[16:58] Ryan Warwick: Th- we're not sitting here saying we've always done it.
[17:01] Shannon Warwick: No.
[17:02] Ryan Warwick: We're-
[17:02] Shannon Warwick: We're learning
[17:03] Ryan Warwick: ... we're-
[17:04] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[17:05] Ryan Warwick: ... grappling and grinding-
[17:07] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[17:07] Ryan Warwick: ... and having uncomfortable, vulnerable conversations.
[17:10] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[17:10] Ryan Warwick: We're just, as, as you like to say, we're purposing to encourage, right?
[17:15] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[17:16] Ryan Warwick: This is an inconsistency we see.
[17:19] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[17:19] Ryan Warwick: It's harming families.
[17:20] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[17:21] Ryan Warwick: It's an inconsistency largely that exists because somebody says, "I'm gonna take care of this," but it, but it is, it is causing problems.
[17:32] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. Um, and so what we had to do
[17:38] Shannon Warwick: was recognize that that wasn't okay, and, and we did. It was not easy. It was hard work. But when it hit the fan and I said, "Hold on.
[17:51] Shannon Warwick: Th- this doesn't feel safe at all," to the point I... if something happens, I'm, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be in the middle of an ocean trying desperately to get to land. I need the LifeRaft.
[18:03] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[18:04] Shannon Warwick: Um, so I can't be told we have roles. I can't be told you've got it taken care of. I have to know- What's going on? I have to understand. And, and we had a unique situation. We have a unique situation because
[18:22] Shannon Warwick: you are my wealth advisor-
[18:25] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm
[18:25] Shannon Warwick: ... and my husband, right? So
[18:29] Shannon Warwick: this is your world. Of course you're going to take care of it. But then
[18:36] Shannon Warwick: if I don't know what you've taken care of-
[18:39] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm
[18:39] Shannon Warwick: ... I can't navigate that with you. Um, if you were gone, I couldn't navigate it for you or in, you know, in your stead. H- how was I going to do that? I knew things were in place. I knew that, um, I had life insurance policies in place. We had talked about all of these things, right? There were triggers in place with the business. There'd be buyouts. All of these things would happen, but if I didn't really truly understand the meat of what would happen, I said, "I don't want to be in a room at a table and people are talking at me. I need to be speaking with them."
[19:15] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[19:16] Shannon Warwick: I need to be able to navigate that conversation, navigate that room.
[19:20] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[19:20] Shannon Warwick: Right? I don't-
[19:21] Ryan Warwick: And know the people in the room.
[19:22] Shannon Warwick: I have to know the people in the room.
[19:23] Ryan Warwick: So you talk about knowing-
[19:24] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[19:24] Ryan Warwick: ... who's in your raft.
[19:25] Shannon Warwick: You have to know who, they, they need to be invited. You know, so who are these people in this raft that, that are with you, right? Were, were they invited by you? Did somebody else just put them in the raft for you? Are they not even in the raft?
[19:38] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[19:38] Shannon Warwick: And you needed that person. Yeah, all of these questions came out.
[19:42] Ryan Warwick: Well, yeah.
[19:43] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[19:43] Ryan Warwick: And if you don't know them-
[19:45] Shannon Warwick: Do you feel safe?
[19:46] Ryan Warwick: And they come to help you.
[19:48] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[19:48] Ryan Warwick: And they truly come to help you.
[19:50] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[19:50] Ryan Warwick: Do you, do you accept that or-
[19:53] Shannon Warwick: Right
[19:53] Ryan Warwick: ... or do you see them as a shark?
[19:54] Shannon Warwick: Right. Right.
[19:55] Ryan Warwick: Or, or when somebody is a shark, do you-
[19:58] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[19:58] Ryan Warwick: ... do you say, "Oh, they're here to help"? How do you know?
[20:01] Shannon Warwick: You don't. You don't.
[20:03] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[20:04] Shannon Warwick: And so-
[20:04] Ryan Warwick: And, and now you're on your own.
[20:06] Shannon Warwick: And so this, it... Okay, so here's a really great analogy.
[20:13] Shannon Warwick: We see this a lot, right? In certain age groups. The husband is so kind. He goes and he puts his wife's jacket on her, and then he opens the car door, and he helps her get in the car, shuts the door, and he drives. And he always drives.
[20:27] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[20:27] Shannon Warwick: And then one day he gets really sick,
[20:30] Shannon Warwick: and then one day he passes, and what happens? The wife doesn't know how to drive, because he was taking care of her.
[20:39] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[20:39] Shannon Warwick: He always drove. "This is my job. This is what I do. I'm taking care of you."
[20:44] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[20:45] Shannon Warwick: Well, let's, let's shift that.
[20:49] Shannon Warwick: Our business.
[20:50] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[20:50] Shannon Warwick: Our finances.
[20:51] Ryan Warwick: Would you do that to your children?
[20:52] Shannon Warwick: Would you do that? No. Absolutely not.
[20:55] Ryan Warwick: You want them-
[20:55] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[20:55] Ryan Warwick: ... to grow. You want them to be capable. You, you want them to be able to navigate the world.
[21:00] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely.
[21:01] Ryan Warwick: And-
[21:01] Shannon Warwick: What happened with our newer driver in inclement weather? "Well, I'm going to go with you, kiddo, but you're driving."
[21:08] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[21:08] Shannon Warwick: "I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna coach you, but you've gotta drive, 'cause you have to know how to do this when I'm not with you."
[21:14] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[21:14] Shannon Warwick: Um,
[21:15] Shannon Warwick: I, I, I, I was like, "This, this really is, is-
[21:18] Ryan Warwick: You feel empowered.
[21:19] Shannon Warwick: It... Yes. Yes. Um, and
[21:24] Shannon Warwick: it's, and that feels safer, right? So even though I appreciate that my wealth advisor helps, manages the taxes, they are complex. It is not a regular W2, here we go. It, it is complex. So I am grateful for you and our incredible CPA, who is also the CPA for the firm. So every, there's so much knowledge there, and it's, it's great. I have this great team, but I just needed my team to invite me to play.
[21:53] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[21:53] Shannon Warwick: Right? I didn't want to sit on the sidelines and be the cheerleader.
[21:57] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[21:57] Shannon Warwick: So now I get to come in. Am I the best player on the team? No, I'm not. But
[22:04] Shannon Warwick: if something happened to you, God forbid,
[22:07] Shannon Warwick: I could play.
[22:08] Ryan Warwick: Hmm. And you ask questions
[22:13] Ryan Warwick: that might not ever enter into anyone else's mind.
[22:16] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[22:17] Ryan Warwick: Even if those questions are just to, "Oh, well, this is another point on which we need to have knowledge transfer." And we really haven't talked i- in depth about that, that idea. I mean, this is more than, um,
[22:33] Ryan Warwick: s- a simple balance sheet.
[22:36] Shannon Warwick: No, I do, I do, I do our bills.
[22:38] Ryan Warwick: So tell me. Yeah. And, and that's, that was step one, and that was-
[22:41] Shannon Warwick: And why did I have to start doing bills?
[22:43] Ryan Warwick: That was a long time ago. Well,
[22:45] Ryan Warwick: y- you... I, uh, I think it was multifaceted.
[22:48] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[22:48] Ryan Warwick: You wanted, and, and I wanted. This was the beginning of, of saying, "You know what? You should do this. What if I'm gone? You should know how to pay the bills. You should know how to get in-"
[22:59] Shannon Warwick: You're pretty good at it. That's what I'm, uh-
[23:00] Ryan Warwick: Well-
[23:01] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[23:02] Ryan Warwick: ... I, I was, I was adequate.
[23:04] Shannon Warwick: Okay.
[23:04] Ryan Warwick: Right? Um, it was the last thing to do, um, after I took care of everything at the business.
[23:09] Shannon Warwick: Sure.
[23:10] Ryan Warwick: Right? Again-
[23:11] Shannon Warwick: And I know
[23:11] Ryan Warwick: ... this inconsistency-
[23:12] Shannon Warwick: Right
[23:13] Ryan Warwick: ... existed between-
[23:14] Shannon Warwick: How much did you love it-
[23:15] Ryan Warwick: ... business and, and family
[23:15] Shannon Warwick: ... when I would call you and say, "Why did my card just get denied at the grocery store?"
[23:20] Shannon Warwick: Did you love that phone call? I loved making that phone call. Yeah. "Ryan, transfer money right now." "Oh, sorry. I meant to do that," or, "I forgot about that."
[23:30] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[23:30] Shannon Warwick: Or, yeah, yeah.
[23:32] Ryan Warwick: And, and I'm being vulnerable here because I think it's important for people to know how challenging it is to do what we're asking people to do.
[23:41] Shannon Warwick: It's so challenging, to the point that, that we have said, "Whoo.
[23:48] Shannon Warwick: Here we are. We're in a position of strength, and this is hard." We don't like it. It's uncomfortable. You know, it's, it's, it's deliberate discomfort.
[23:59] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[23:59] Shannon Warwick: It's choosing to be vuln- vulnerable, all those things, right? You know, oh, here you go. You... Quotes, man in the arena, man in the arena speech. That's what we're doing. I'm not gonna quote it, 'cause I don't know it from heart, but it's a good speech.
[24:12] Ryan Warwick: Sure.
[24:12] Shannon Warwick: Teddy Roosevelt. Okay. We're in the arena, and it's-
[24:16] Ryan Warwick: Right
[24:16] Shannon Warwick: ... uncomfortable. But we realized, wow-
[24:21] Shannon Warwick: In the position of strength that we're in
[24:24] Ryan Warwick: If, if it's hard for us-
[24:25] Shannon Warwick: It's how-
[24:26] Ryan Warwick: ... then, then we need to be out in the world helping other people
[24:29] Shannon Warwick: ... and potentially nigh impossible for others and who are not equipped
[24:33] Ryan Warwick: In particular, if, if the one who is in charge of the finances doesn't have the capability-
[24:38] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[24:39] Ryan Warwick: ... to transfer knowledge to the other
[24:41] Shannon Warwick: Or they're lacking understanding themselves.
[24:44] Ryan Warwick: Well, that's what I mean, yeah.
[24:45] Shannon Warwick: Or okay. Um, or but they may- they may not be a good communicator. They may not be, you know, maybe they're struggling to be-
[24:51] Ryan Warwick: Well, in, in time.
[24:53] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[24:53] Ryan Warwick: It-
[24:54] Shannon Warwick: Exactly
[24:54] Ryan Warwick: ... it doesn't happen in, in one hour.
[24:57] Shannon Warwick: Exactly.
[24:58] Ryan Warwick: And so, you know-
[24:58] Shannon Warwick: And everybody learns differently. We know this. Learning styles are different.
[25:01] Ryan Warwick: Yep.
[25:02] Shannon Warwick: Um, not everybody is a good teacher. So we realized we have to create something, we don't have to, but we would like to create something that could come alongside other people, and
[25:15] Shannon Warwick: we could a- through our lived experience, come alongside and coach, encourage, help, champion along, right? We could do those things and then offer a space to start the conversation, an ability to grapple with the conversation, to get things that were fuzzy more clear, to just really dial in. And so that's what we've been really attempting to do.
[25:41] Ryan Warwick: Well, yeah, I, I think these are emotionally charged conversations.
[25:47] Shannon Warwick: They are, 100%.
[25:48] Ryan Warwick: Money is. I mean, that is a major aspect of, of the advice we give is money is highly emotional.
[25:56] Shannon Warwick: And we have to have an, uh, podcast completely around the emotion of money, the psychology of money, all of that. Yes.
[26:02] Ryan Warwick: And so-
[26:03] Shannon Warwick: Going back to the roots of childhood
[26:04] Ryan Warwick: ... talking about money-
[26:05] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[26:05] Ryan Warwick: ... with your spouse-
[26:07] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[26:07] Ryan Warwick: ... and trying to transfer knowledge-
[26:08] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[26:08] Ryan Warwick: ... and, and now guess what? Trying to say, "Oh, look, for the last five, 10, 15, 20 years-
[26:17] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[26:17] Ryan Warwick: ... when I've been doing this,
[26:20] Ryan Warwick: w- how in the world can you stand there and question me? How can you quest- I, I've been doing a good job." It's-- So it's a point of, it's vulnerability, right?
[26:30] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[26:30] Ryan Warwick: It's w- so does that question mean you're, you're questioning whether or not I was doing a good job, right? So now-
[26:37] Shannon Warwick: Do you trust me?
[26:37] Ryan Warwick: So now-
[26:38] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, yeah
[26:39] Ryan Warwick: ... we really think this is a conversation, um, that largely, uh, benefits from having a guide in-
[26:47] Shannon Warwick: And I, I wanna, I wanna say something
[26:47] Ryan Warwick: ... a mediator, a finan- a, a wealth advisor, but not just any-
[26:51] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[26:51] Ryan Warwick: ... because so many are just focused on a transaction.
[26:54] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[26:54] Ryan Warwick: "Here's the investment, the mutual fund we're gonna talk about," not on purpose-based conversations to help your family move forward, to prepare-
[27:01] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[27:01] Ryan Warwick: ... your spouse, to prepare your children, to educate-
[27:04] Shannon Warwick: Right
[27:04] Ryan Warwick: ... to transfer knowledge, to-
[27:05] Shannon Warwick: Exactly
[27:06] Ryan Warwick: ... right? There is, there is a lot here.
[27:08] Shannon Warwick: It's a relationship.
[27:08] Ryan Warwick: And that's why we're-
[27:09] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[27:09] Ryan Warwick: ... we're really excited about this. Um-
[27:12] Shannon Warwick: And I wanna say something.
[27:13] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[27:13] Shannon Warwick: Y- you mentioned, you know, you had this quest-- "Well, do you trust me? Am I having a... Did, did I not do a good job? Do you not feel like I've taken care of you?" All of those things, right?
[27:21] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[27:21] Shannon Warwick: Those can come up.
[27:23] Shannon Warwick: I would encourage people to step back in, in, in a spirit of humility, recognizing you guys are on the same team. We were and are on the same team. So when I came to you,
[27:35] Shannon Warwick: I, I was really blown away when I saw we were, in writing the book, one of the things that you wrote
[27:43] Shannon Warwick: was basically an admittance of, of, it was an apology, it was admittance of, "I, I, here's the most important person in my life, and I failed because I didn't,
[27:55] Shannon Warwick: I didn't tell her."
[27:56] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[27:57] Shannon Warwick: "I didn't prepare her. I thought I had. I really did. But she was the one person that I didn't, I didn't do the job that I should have done."
[28:06] Ryan Warwick: Yep. That is, again, the, the perfect ill- illustration of the inconsistency of we do all these things in our business-
[28:14] Shannon Warwick: Right
[28:15] Ryan Warwick: ... but we don't have them in place at home.
[28:17] Shannon Warwick: What changed
[28:19] Shannon Warwick: when we invited each other into a process? When we, when you invited me, when I knocked the door down and said, "You darn well better invite me" No. I-- When, when we just had this awakening, this moment, and you had this, um, humility and, and we, we decided to partner. Um,
[28:38] Shannon Warwick: what changed? And, and we talked about it. Empowerment.
[28:43] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[28:44] Shannon Warwick: More peaceful.
[28:46] Ryan Warwick: Well-
[28:46] Shannon Warwick: Less burden
[28:47] Ryan Warwick: ... I, yeah, I think it, I think it,
[28:50] Ryan Warwick: as we talk about it, it could largely be seen as, "Oh, that's all for you," but I've received the blessing of... Well, you've been educated, brought in-
[29:00] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[29:01] Ryan Warwick: ... knowledge transfer.
[29:02] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
[29:03] Ryan Warwick: That's all wonderful, but-
[29:04] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[29:04] Ryan Warwick: ... but-
[29:05] Shannon Warwick: But what has happened for you? Yeah
[29:07] Ryan Warwick: ... I have
[29:09] Ryan Warwick: more freedom. I have more enjoyment. We, we can draw closer together because in a very vital part of our life, I mean, let's be honest-
[29:21] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm. Money touches everything
[29:23] Ryan Warwick: ... money touches everything, and the data would still indicate that many, I don't know if we can say most today, but many divorces happen because of money problems and lack of communication around money and lack of understanding and different philosophies, which-
[29:42] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[29:42] Ryan Warwick: ... again, could root back to even-
[29:45] Shannon Warwick: Childhood
[29:45] Ryan Warwick: ... things, you know, in attachment theory-
[29:48] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely
[29:48] Ryan Warwick: ... in, in very early parts of their life that are never addressed.
[29:51] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[29:52] Ryan Warwick: So there's, there's empowerment on both sides. There's greater joy on both sides. There is-
[29:57] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[29:57] Ryan Warwick: ... what, what we talk about is we wanna make every decision in how does it bring us closer together-
[30:05] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[30:05] Ryan Warwick: ... not how do we... You know, Ryan's making a decision. Okay, well, if he's doing that, then I'm gonna do this. And then, okay, well, then I'll do this, and now what are we doing? We're drifting. We wanna make every decision looking toward one another and then moving forward, like r- with, with- More rocket fuel
[30:23] Shannon Warwick: And we have fun, purposeful conversations. They're not all fun and purposeful. Some of them are tedious, like-
[30:28] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[30:28] Shannon Warwick: ... tax season, right?
[30:29] Ryan Warwick: Sure.
[30:30] Shannon Warwick: But, but-
[30:33] Ryan Warwick: So, so on this, on this point, um, at RW we say we help our clients build, manage-
[30:43] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[30:43] Ryan Warwick: ... and protect real wealth through all of life's transitions.
[30:48] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[30:48] Ryan Warwick: Okay, so let's break that down. Now-
[30:50] Shannon Warwick: Okay
[30:51] Ryan Warwick: ... in the areas of investments-
[30:54] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[30:54] Ryan Warwick: ... we call it the four cornerstones of, of wealth management.
[30:57] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[30:58] Ryan Warwick: ... comprehensive wealth management: investments, borrowing and liability management,
[31:03] Ryan Warwick: non-portfolio risk management, so we're talking insurance, life insurance, disability, and all these things that-
[31:09] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[31:09] Ryan Warwick: ... are protective, uh, to a family.
[31:13] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[31:13] Ryan Warwick: Right? And estate planning. Okay.
[31:16] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[31:16] Ryan Warwick: So we have... And, and not to mention, you know, tax and bill paying and all, all of those other things that money touches. Okay, so let's just go, go through each one in turn. Building. Okay, what if
[31:29] Ryan Warwick: in the early part of, of marriage, of life-
[31:34] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[31:34] Ryan Warwick: ... we're building but not together? What challenges does that create? What if I'm bu- what if I'm the only one doing it? Or, you know, take, take this, uh, you know,
[31:47] Ryan Warwick: make up a persona of a, of a couple. Uh, one is working and, and saying, "We need to save," and, and the other one says, "Why are we doing that?"
[31:57] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[31:57] Ryan Warwick: Or, "What are we doing," right? And there's never, potentially never even conversation around it.
[32:02] Shannon Warwick: That's right.
[32:02] Ryan Warwick: Does that create issues?
[32:04] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely. There's so much disconnect.
[32:06] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. I mean, I think-
[32:09] Shannon Warwick: And potentially resentment that can come from that, too.
[32:12] Ryan Warwick: Sure.
[32:12] Shannon Warwick: Right? And absolute misalignment.
[32:14] Ryan Warwick: I mean, at a basic level,
[32:19] Ryan Warwick: let- let's just, let's just play this out. You know how much I make, so, you know, let's make up a number. "Ryan, I know you make $75,000. Why can't we buy X?" "Oh, be-
[32:32] Ryan Warwick: what do you mean? I... That's a stupid question," because-
[32:35] Shannon Warwick: Right
[32:35] Ryan Warwick: ... because we're saving for a rainy day, or we're saving for retirement, or we're doing... But we never talked about it, right?
[32:42] Shannon Warwick: Right.
[32:42] Ryan Warwick: So, so how do we, how do we build real wealth? Now, what's real wealth? Real wealth is not just the numbers on a page. Real wealth is what are the purposes and, and passions and conversations and the reasons that we're saving? Okay.
[32:56] Shannon Warwick: There it is.
[32:56] Ryan Warwick: So now-
[32:57] Shannon Warwick: What's the why?
[32:57] Ryan Warwick: ... how do we build real wealth without having conversations?
[33:00] Shannon Warwick: Conversations.
[33:00] Ryan Warwick: Right?
[33:01] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely.
[33:01] Ryan Warwick: It all, it all really ties together.
[33:03] Shannon Warwick: So then winding down, we would say real wealth really gets fed by this process of this protector realizing that protection is actually involvement.
[33:15] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[33:16] Shannon Warwick: And then you can vision together, you can purpose together, you can bring your kids in. This can be a family on mission. This can be everybody's moving in the same direction, but that only happens when the protector
[33:27] Shannon Warwick: isn't a team of one.
[33:29] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. Well, so I mean, there is this irony. So before we... I'll just jump here. There's a, there's a book, um, it's talking about preparing your heirs, and it talks about potentially up to 70% of transitions or successions from, from one generation to the next fail.
[33:48] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[33:48] Ryan Warwick: What if-
[33:49] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[33:50] Ryan Warwick: ... it doesn't even talk about
[33:53] Ryan Warwick: this, the transition of information to a spouse.
[33:57] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[33:58] Ryan Warwick: Okay, so everyone's worried about transferring knowledge to their kids, but nobody's out there talking about transferring knowledge to the spouse. And here's something I realized the other day. If 80% of entrepreneurs are men-
[34:13] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. I know where you're going with this
[34:15] Ryan Warwick: ... and most women outlive men-
[34:17] Shannon Warwick: Yep
[34:17] Ryan Warwick: ... there's a very, very high probability that many, many women will find themselves in charge of these balance sheets.
[34:24] Shannon Warwick: That's exactly right.
[34:25] Ryan Warwick: Right? Of, of these-
[34:26] Shannon Warwick: It's the matriarch at that point
[34:27] Ryan Warwick: ... of, of, of these-
[34:28] Shannon Warwick: Right? With the family.
[34:28] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. And, and so-
[34:30] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[34:30] Ryan Warwick: ... can they all just, "Well, it'll be okay because I've transferred knowledge to a kid." Maybe.
[34:36] Shannon Warwick: Maybe.
[34:36] Ryan Warwick: Right?
[34:37] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[34:37] Ryan Warwick: But how, how great is that for that spouse? "Oh, now I, now I move from my husband knew everything to now-
[34:47] Shannon Warwick: Exactly. Remember
[34:47] Ryan Warwick: ... now I have to talk to my son about everything-
[34:49] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[34:49] Ryan Warwick: ... or my daughter or whatever." It just, it doesn't create empowerment. It doesn't create-
[34:53] Shannon Warwick: No
[34:53] Ryan Warwick: ... flourishing, right? And so that's one of the thing- We're all, we're all about flourishing in our, in our lives, and I think flourishing in our marriages. And this is a very... At the root of it, this is a basic
[35:06] Ryan Warwick: point.
[35:07] Shannon Warwick: It's like a basic need.
[35:07] Ryan Warwick: This is a basic need or point-
[35:10] Shannon Warwick: Safety, security
[35:10] Ryan Warwick: ... on which we can, we can all-
[35:13] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[35:13] Ryan Warwick: ... in our relationships-
[35:14] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[35:14] Ryan Warwick: ... come together more closely-
[35:16] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[35:17] Ryan Warwick: ... and, and build a, a stronger foundation and, and a better life around, um, purpose. I mean, even to the questions of, uh, you know, some of the conversations we're having with, with families that have huge net worths-
[35:30] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[35:30] Ryan Warwick: ... but are asking the question, "We don't know if we can even stop."
[35:32] Shannon Warwick: Can we stop?
[35:33] Ryan Warwick: Like, so-
[35:34] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[35:34] Ryan Warwick: ... maybe stopping is going to cause flourishing
[35:39] Ryan Warwick: that they can't even imagine, right? But they, they can't even stop to have the conversation-
[35:44] Shannon Warwick: Sure
[35:44] Ryan Warwick: ... to, to know if that's a viable option.
[35:47] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[35:47] Ryan Warwick: So-
[35:48] Shannon Warwick: We all need that
[35:49] Ryan Warwick: ... um, managing, you know, protecting. So the, all of these areas, you can't do it together or you c- you can't do it without resentment, without problems if-
[35:59] Shannon Warwick: You don't do it together
[36:00] Ryan Warwick: ... both people aren't engaged.
[36:02] Shannon Warwick: No, 100%, yeah.
[36:02] Ryan Warwick: And so I think that's, that's a, a decent, um, stopping point for this.
[36:07] Shannon Warwick: Yep, agree.
[36:08] Ryan Warwick: Like, the, the myth of the financial protector, you know, why go in it alone, um-
[36:15] Shannon Warwick: Can damage relationships, can damage families-
[36:17] Ryan Warwick: Yeah
[36:17] Shannon Warwick: ... can damage marriages.
[36:18] Ryan Warwick: And, and I, and I would love to flip that around. How about you can be a financial protector by-
[36:26] Shannon Warwick: Yes
[36:26] Ryan Warwick: ... encouraging, by drawing in, by dragging you-
[36:31] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[36:31] Ryan Warwick: To the appointment with your CPA-
[36:34] Shannon Warwick: To acting
[36:34] Ryan Warwick: ... with the wealth advisor.
[36:35] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[36:35] Ryan Warwick: Because-
[36:36] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. So I would encourage the spouse, whoever that may be, don't have to be drug to anything. Don't, don't, don't be somebody who, who has to be, you know, coerced, pulled. Yeah, don't. Engage. You have to be on the other side of that coin.
[36:51] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[36:51] Shannon Warwick: Right? Be a willing participant.
[36:54] Ryan Warwick: Yep.
[36:55] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. An active and willing participant. You don't have to be an expert. You don't have to go as far and crazy as I've gone, you know, with diving in. You don't. But be a willing and active participant. Yeah, 100%.
[37:09] Ryan Warwick: Well said.
[37:10] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[37:10] Ryan Warwick: Great. Thank you.
[37:12] Shannon Warwick: Thank you. And thank you for being a fabulous wealth advisor.
[37:19] Ryan Warwick: Thank you for listening to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast. If you liked this podcast, please like, share, and subscribe. The highest compliment you could give would be sharing this with a friend. Thank you. The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or any specific security. RW Investment Management LLC, DBA RW Investment Management, is a registered investment advisor. Testimonials given by current clients are not in exchange for compensation. This document is solely for informational purposes. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where RWIM and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Investing involves risk and possible loss of principal capital. No advice may be rendered by RWIM unless a client service agreement is in place. RWIM is not a legal or tax advisor.