[0:00] Melissa Jenkins: You can have a large net worth, a large portfolio- Sure... and not have met that worth, and you can have a lower net worth, and you have worth beyond wealth. So wealth is not to be detested or desired or feared. Powerful. But it's simply a tool to help people realize their goals and values and objectives. In the last year, I've had at least two clients say to me, "Melissa, you're going to have to encourage me to spend." Wow. Um, "I need you- Wow... to, to tell me it's okay. My wife still needs somebody that she knows and can turn to and ask questions." Wow. "And if something happened to me, you would be there for her." Your money lives beyond you, and your goals are beyond you.
[0:47] Ryan Warwick: Welcome to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast.
[0:50] Shannon Warwick: Where net worth meets personal worth. I'm Shannon.
[0:52] Ryan Warwick: I'm Ryan. We help families navigate the emotional, relational, and personal realities that money alone can't solve.
[1:00] Shannon Warwick: If you've built wealth but still wonder what it all means, or how to keep your family grounded while protecting your legacy, you're in the right place.
[1:07] Ryan Warwick: We sit down with experts, and with you, to talk identity, purpose, and connection beyond the balance sheet.
[1:14] Shannon Warwick: Because true wealth isn't measured in dollars. It's measured in the impact we make and the relationships we nurture.
[1:21] Ryan Warwick: So grab a seat. Take a breath. And let's redefine what it means-
[1:25] Shannon Warwick: To be truly wealthy together.
[1:27] Ryan Warwick: This is the Worth- Worth- Beyond Wealth podcast
[1:30] Melissa Jenkins: ... Beyond Wealth podcast.
[1:31] Shannon Warwick: All right, so today we are talking to the women of RW. I was kind of, I was joking earlier, it's like the, uh, it's not the Real Housewives of, of Orange County- Mm-hmm... it's the real women of RW. Uh, but earlier we've talked with Rawlin Vacek, and then we talked, uh, with Kimberly Jakes, and now this is Melissa Jenkins. Uh, she is a CPA and a CFA. She is a principal and wealth advisor here at RW. Uh, she brings, uh, tax and investing together. On a personal note, she is our niece, and, uh, so we're a little proud of her. Yeah, and a, a little quick funny background story, she used to be obviously then Melissa Warwick before Jenkins. Yes. So when, when people would call in, they would assume that you were married to Ryan, and that was kind of gross- Yes... that was your uncle.
[2:22] Shannon Warwick: Sorry. So gross. So gross. Yeah. Yeah. So we're thankful for her husband- Yes... Aaron.
[2:28] Melissa Jenkins: And changing my last name, yes.
[2:29] Shannon Warwick: And changing the last name.
[2:31] Ryan Warwick: It's made things easier.
[2:31] Melissa Jenkins: It has made things easier.
[2:33] Shannon Warwick: And you also have two beautiful little boys.
[2:36] Melissa Jenkins: Two beautiful boys. Yeah. Yes. I have a four-year-old and a, um, almost nine-month-old. Yeah. So.
[2:43] Shannon Warwick: So you're a busy mama. Busy mama. Busy mama.
[2:45] Melissa Jenkins: Lots of joy and giggles, though, so. Yes, absolutely. Yep, absolutely.
[2:49] Ryan Warwick: That's the real, real worth.
[2:51] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, the real, real worth.
[2:53] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. Yeah, it is. Absolutely it is. And we're talking about, uh, worth beyond wealth today, um, so I think it's a good little transition there. Uh, in your own words, what is worth beyond wealth, and how do you personally help families grow more of it?
[3:09] Melissa Jenkins: It's a big question.
[3:10] Shannon Warwick: It's a big question.
[3:11] Melissa Jenkins: It's a big question. Um, well, I did, uh, look at that question, and I thought about it a little bit really just this morning.
[3:19] Shannon Warwick: I love it.
[3:19] Melissa Jenkins: Uh, uh, because I was, you know, spending most of the weekend with, with the boys. With the boys. With the boys. Um, surrounded by boys. I am the opposite of Ryan, who is always surrounded by- By girls... by girls. So worth beyond wealth, uh, I think that it is really just, um, realizing God's peace, His joy, His strength, and His purpose for, for each and every one of us. I think really you just have to go, go there. And so, um, realizing that purpose for, for everyone. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[3:57] Shannon Warwick: And not every client feels that way. We know that. Mm. If you were addressing a client, how would you navigate them in that worth beyond wealth space?
[4:07] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[4:07] Melissa Jenkins: So wealth is not to be detested or desired or feared. Powerful. But it's simply a tool to help people realize, um, their goals and values and objectives. And so helping people navigate what they think is their desire to have the right size portfolio or how much money they need to spend, but what are the things that they, that they value, and the objectives that they have, and the emotion behind that, and helping them to navigate getting there in a positive way. I think that so many people are intimidated by, by money, positively or negatively, um- Mm-hmm... but just intimidated by how to navigate it and what they're trying to achieve with it. So trying to just cut through the noise and hear- Hear... what they really, um, are wanting, which they don't always know, um, until you have some of those conversations.
[5:05] Ryan Warwick: I love that you said that, because- Yeah, I do... I think it, I, I'm gonna read from your bio.
[5:10] Melissa Jenkins: I, yes.
[5:10] Shannon Warwick: It's okay.
[5:10] Ryan Warwick: You may not even know what your bio says.
[5:12] Shannon Warwick: You may not even know.
[5:13] Melissa Jenkins: I, I do know, I do often say intimidated by money, so I know my bio says that. Yeah. But, so.
[5:18] Ryan Warwick: Issues relating to money can be very emotional. Mm-hmm. I think you resonated that relative to real worth. The backdrop is noisy and confusing. As a student of investing and wealth management, you help your clients balance reason and emotion while fostering open and honest communication. Mm. And we'll, we'll come back to how you do that with- Mm... within families, spouses, and, and trying to encourage probably both spouses to be involved. Mm-hmm. But experience, we'll talk about this more later, has taught me that every client's situation and needs are unique, and accounting for their feelings about wealth is as important as accounting for their assets and liabilities. Being there for my clients through all of life's transitions is an honor, privilege, and responsibility. Mm-hmm. I just think that-
[6:08] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[6:09] Ryan Warwick: ... what you said just resonated- Mm-hmm... so beautifully with, with that.
[6:13] Shannon Warwick: And you- Thank you... weren't reading your own bio.
[6:14] Melissa Jenkins: No.
[6:14] Ryan Warwick: No, no.
[6:14] Shannon Warwick: So this is organic, right? Yes. This, this is your, this is who you are. Mm-hmm. This is the lens in which you view your role as an investor here at RW.
[6:25] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. This- Yes
[6:26] Shannon Warwick: ... this is how you live life.
[6:28] Melissa Jenkins: Very much so. I mean, it's life. We all have things that are hard emotionally, um, things are j- that are joyful and exciting, um- Painful... painful. You know, we, we are all human. We all have those emotions, and I think that often, you know, clients will come in, and you don't know what they had happen in the last year, or, um, sometimes, or the, the last week or month or day, whatever's going on. And, you know, they bring that with them into the meeting, just like we are bringing ourselves into that meeting and what's going on that day. And the money's just the tool to help them achieve those things, and so trying to just understand really what would bring them worth and, um, peace of mind and joy.
[7:16] Shannon Warwick: So I'm hearing you say that you don't want your clients serving their money. You want that money serving your client. Yes. That's what I'm hearing.
[7:23] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah, that's well put. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[7:25] Shannon Warwick: That's what I'm hearing.
[7:26] Ryan Warwick: Or chasing a number- Yeah... right?
[7:28] Shannon Warwick: An arbitrary number.
[7:29] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[7:30] Shannon Warwick: You're trying to help them understand what is, "This is what you need," right? Mm-hmm. Uh, yes, we have goals. Maybe this is what you want, but don't get caught in some cycle to where there's this, this nebulous-
[7:43] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[7:43] Shannon Warwick: ... arbitrary number that you have to just keep searching for and grasping for. Yes. Live, live well.
[7:49] Melissa Jenkins: And-
[7:49] Shannon Warwick: Have worth beyond wealth. Yes. Okay.
[7:51] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, and I think that term, especially that worth beyond wealth, you know, you can have a, a large net worth, a large portfolio- Sure... and not have met that worth. No. Yeah. And you can have a, a lower net worth, and you have worth beyond wealth, and- Right... everywhere in between. And so it's not the, the number, it's not what your net worth statement says that gets you to worth beyond wealth. And so clients, I think we all have that comparison- Yes... piece in, inside of us. And so I'll have clients ask, "How, how do we compare to other-... in others in terms of savings?" Wow. And I'm like, "You know, that's, that's-
[8:36] Shannon Warwick: That's stressful for them
[8:37] Melissa Jenkins: ... th- well, you know, it's a, a valid question. I think it's- Mm-hmm... in all of us to ask that. But- Sure... yeah, also just to redirect and say, you know, everybody has a different path, a different story, a different number, and it really doesn't matter in terms of comparison, but what are your goals, and are you able to achieve those? So bringing, even in those moments, like bringing it back, like let's get away from that comparison mindset, that trying to hit that number, but what, what do you actually want to do in this life and achieve? And- Mm-hmm... maybe you're already there. Maybe we need to do a few things- Wow... to get there. But make, you know, trying to get that focus on what matters most. Sure. Yeah.
[9:18] Shannon Warwick: So getting them away from, the comparison is the thief of joy, is- Right... w- no, but what, what matters to you? Are, are we hitting your personal mark- Yeah... your goal?
[9:29] Melissa Jenkins: Right.
[9:30] Shannon Warwick: Okay. Okay, so helping bring them back, and that's, again, that's the psychology of money. Um, uh, the word he used was enough. Yeah. You know, uh, what's enough? Yeah. Um, and they have the example of a gentleman who, he came from, he came from poverty. And he quickly moved up in the world, and, you know, he's a multimillionaire, but he wasn't in the, the, the multi-multi-multimillionaire, millionaire circle or the billionaires of- Yeah... "I ne- I need more." Mm-hmm. And then he lost it all with the comparison. Yeah. And so what was enough?
[10:05] Melissa Jenkins: And, you know, even with that question, like are you trying to f- uh, find yourself in the top 10%, 1%? Mm. Are you trying to, um, have joy with your family, to experience the Hawaiian vacation before your kids all leave the house? See, what are, you know, what are you trying to-
[10:22] Shannon Warwick: What would bring joy
[10:22] Melissa Jenkins: ... achieve with that? What would actually bring you joy and peace of mind, and have you, have you enjoy your life?
[10:29] Ryan Warwick: Are there ways you help people navigate that conversation? Yeah. Because I, I think it's, what you're saying is absolutely correct, and the danger is we have some number- Yeah... and that number represents fulfillment or, or happiness or, or wealth, and then we move the goalpost. Yeah. Right? That's easy to do. So how do you help people actually plan for-
[10:53] Melissa Jenkins: Best way is just asking lots of questions and leading them, you know, not trying to bring them to a certain answer or me talking, but truly just asking questions, letting each spouse talk. And if one says- Mm... "Well, this is our answer," turning to the next and ensuring that they also, like, "Do you agree, or do you see it differently?" Wow. Um, making sure that they both get that voice because I think it's really easy to get one answer from one person and move on, and I-
[11:23] Ryan Warwick: You find those answers are often different?
[11:25] Melissa Jenkins: Um, yeah, and I think that they don't necessarily re- realize that about themselves either. And, and sometimes they're not. Sometimes they say, "No, I agree with that," and so that's, you know, wonderful. Great. They're on the same page.
[11:38] Melissa Jenkins: Um, but I think it's good just to make sure that everybody gets that time to think and say, "Yes, that's, that's, um, I agree, that's what we want." But making sure you just keep asking questions, and the next question, and until you know confidently that, um, you're at a good answer. And, you know, if that's not going to be possible with the portfolio size, those are harder conversations. Sure. They're not quite so much fun. But so you redirect, well, may- how can we get there different, in a different way or, or see, see that goal fulfill, you know, without the- Mm... the output, um, cash flow. Um, or, um, you know, if they're already there, and, and just helping them realize, like, oh, you don't actually need to work another year or save up to a certain number. You, you have this, um- Permission... yeah, permission to- Yeah... to move forward and to get that-... thing. Yeah
[12:31] Ryan Warwick: Raleigh said along those lines is, is we often find ourselves needing to encourage the client that it's okay to, to spend. Yeah That, that often they're not-
[12:41] Shannon Warwick: Pay yourself now. Mm-hmm.
[12:42] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[12:42] Ryan Warwick: It's not an easy transition to make. Have you seen that same-
[12:45] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, I, I can actually recall, um, in the last coup- in the last year, I've had at least two clients say to me, "Melissa, you're going to have to encourage me to spend." Wow. Um, "I need you-
[12:57] Shannon Warwick: Wow
[12:57] Melissa Jenkins: ... to, to tell me it's okay." Um, and-
[13:00] Shannon Warwick: That's really powerful though
[13:01] Melissa Jenkins: It is really powerful
[13:02] Shannon Warwick: And they trust you- Mm-hmm... to be the good guide. Yeah. So you have built rapport, relationship, trust.
[13:08] Melissa Jenkins: Now, I, I've also had a client say, "Oh, Melissa, you don't have to give me permission to spend my money." I'm like, "That's good."
[13:13] Shannon Warwick: "I'm ready to spend."
[13:14] Melissa Jenkins: Well- That's funny... like, it, it is my money, I understand that. And, but it is funny. I'm like, "The, it is your money," but sometimes they just want us to say-
[13:23] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[13:23] Melissa Jenkins: ... it is okay. Navigating differently now- Yeah
[13:25] Shannon Warwick: ... going from that saving mindset to the spending mindset, and it's very different.
[13:29] Melissa Jenkins: It is, uh, very different. It's, I think it's one of the hardest transitions in life. I haven't had to experience it yet Yeah But just through-
[13:36] Ryan Warwick: But you've walked with many people
[13:37] Melissa Jenkins: But you've walked through many people- Many people... and, and seen that it is a hard transition.
[13:43] Shannon Warwick: So I would say right there- Yeah... and we haven't gotten to it yet, but it- Yeah... um, 'cause we'll talk about wisdom, and I think that right there- Mm-hmm... you're gaining wisdom- Mm... through that lived experience of having walked, and walked, and walked on these journeys. Yes. As, and it is informing you in how you walk with people. This is going to be a very difficult transition. I wanna set you up for success.
[14:06] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. That's really beautiful.
[14:08] Shannon Warwick: I, I heard a couple things, um, in what you said. You are listening. You are opening up a safe space for people to speak. You want- Trying... to hear. You're trying. Yes. You're trying, and you're listening. You're, you're pulling information. "Tell me, what are your goals?" Mm-hmm. "What are you thinking? What's scary? What's joyful?" You- you're opening up a space. Mm. I think that's really important because, uh, well, I, I think often you can get into spaces where someone wants to just, "I just need to advise you."
[14:36] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm.
[14:37] Shannon Warwick: But you're trying to, to flip that and say, "I'm gonna coach you, and I'm going to be a good guide, but this is your journey, so I need to understand your journey."
[14:47] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. I mean, you can't... I can't think of a good metaphor now. But I mean, to your point, Shannon, if you don't know where they're trying to go, I, I mean, if you can't plug into Siri the destination, then you're not going to get there. You can't guide on that next sh- right step. If you don't know, um, if they have a F-150 or a convertible Mm-hmm... or tractor
[15:16] Shannon Warwick: Right
[15:16] Melissa Jenkins: ... you, you don't know what roads they can take. Um- Sure... so you do have to know- Absolutely... the, the right information, um- Right... to get there.
[15:24] Ryan Warwick: I think one analogy might be we have two ears and one mouth- Yeah.... and we s- speak and listen in proportion.
[15:30] Shannon Warwick: Mm. We try. We try.
[15:32] Melissa Jenkins: It, it's really easy to do the opposite.
[15:34] Ryan Warwick: I mean, it, it is, and because you want to show that you know-
[15:39] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm
[15:39] Ryan Warwick: ... but I think you do a really good job of-
[15:42] Shannon Warwick: I mean, necessarily
[15:42] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[15:42] Ryan Warwick: ... asking questions, listening- Mm-hmm... interjecting appropriate- Mm-hmm... wisdom and advice when, when it- Mm... is called for. Yeah. But then letting the people, the, the clients speak and, and be heard. Mm. Um, and, and you said something that's really important, and I don't think that most people out there, in fact, I know that most people out there in the, in the industry at large do this, but you turn to the next client.
[16:06] Shannon Warwick: Oh my goodness, yes.
[16:07] Ryan Warwick: Right? Mm. And, and you want them to be seen and heard- Mm-hmm... also. Yeah. Right? I think that's a really critical point.
[16:15] Shannon Warwick: Hey, I'm so proud of you. Well- You're, you're just in sync because I was going to say you said both. Yes. Um, and it's a great transition because of the historic wave of wealth moving to women that we know is coming.
[16:29] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm.
[16:30] Shannon Warwick: And I think what I'm hearing you say is you're wanting to help them feel ready and calm, educated, heard, understood. Uh, it's important to you during these meetings to hear both sides. Are we walking in unison? Is there something else I need to hear?
[16:49] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm.
[16:49] Shannon Warwick: So you're wanting to hear from both spouses. Yes, absolutely. And- Okay
[16:53] Melissa Jenkins: ... I mean, not just for me, but for, for them. Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's great.
[16:58] Shannon Warwick: You want to empower them and educate them and hear them.
[17:01] Melissa Jenkins: And that, and that they hear each other.
[17:03] Shannon Warwick: Absolutely. I, I think that's something that we, we've really been picking up on here is, uh, there's a lot of, um, mediating that can kind of go on. Yes. Or things that come out that they weren't even aware. Mm-hmm. And now it's a place where we can even be stronger as a couple. "Man, that was really powerful that came out in our, in our meeting with Melissa, and I didn't know you felt that way. Tell me about that. How do I help you with that goal? How do we d- how do we dream together?"
[17:28] Melissa Jenkins: Right. Absolutely. And knowing that those dreams are possible or-
[17:32] Shannon Warwick: Or, as you said, we're gonna need to take a little bit of a different road, but we can.
[17:37] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah.
[17:37] Ryan Warwick: Well, I, I think the ethos of our firm is not to just make sure people are prepared for the possibility of losing a spouse.
[17:46] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm.
[17:46] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[17:46] Ryan Warwick: So that's part of this transition- Mm-hmm... that's coming. But- Yeah... I mean, you, you said they, so they hear each other so that they- Yes... they know so that they're talking to each other. You're facilitating communication- Mm-hmm... so that, I mean, our, our project, The Life Raft, life is living in family enterprise.
[18:02] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm.
[18:03] Shannon Warwick: Yep.
[18:03] Ryan Warwick: This isn't about preparing somebody for the eventual loss of their spouse. It's about giving them a framework for intentionality to live a flourishing life. Mm-hmm. And that's what you're already doing. Yeah. I mean, that's-
[18:14] Melissa Jenkins: Hopefully.
[18:15] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. Well- No, I think-
[18:16] Ryan Warwick: ... you're facilitating the conversation- Yeah, yeah... for that-
[18:18] Shannon Warwick: You're opening the door
[18:20] Ryan Warwick: ... purpose, right?
[18:20] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[18:21] Shannon Warwick: For mission, for, for vision, for, for purpose, walking together.
[18:26] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[18:26] Shannon Warwick: That's what you're trying to do. Yes. Yeah, and I think it's really important as we start looking to this transfer of wealth that's coming, women In particular, needing the education because so many are reporting feelings of unpreparedness, inability to manage the, the inheritance that's coming, or even if it's not inheritance, but, but widows, um, they-
[18:51] Ryan Warwick: Yeah, I mean, I think a big part of this, so the, the numbers are estimated at 124 trillion- Trillion... over the next 20 years. Mm-hmm. 54 trillion expected to go to surviving spouses, 95% of whom are women, and I think that's... That would've shocked me- Mm-hmm... but when I looked through those people that, that I serve that have lost spouses- Mm-hmm... it's 90-plus percent that are women.
[19:18] Shannon Warwick: Women.
[19:18] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm. The surviving spouses are pre- predominantly women. Yeah. And, and they want somebody that they can trust. Sure. Um, I mean, everybody does, and what's really amazing is I feel like a lot of the couples that we work with, the, the husband wants his spouse to know that whoever they're working with in the event that he pass first, the, the wife has somebody that they trust- I see... and are comfortable to go to for that help. And I know-
[19:48] Shannon Warwick: There's a steward there. Yes. That's a good way to-
[19:50] Melissa Jenkins: There is a steward there... put it. And I know been lucky enough to have a couple new clients come looking specifically for that purpose. "I'm sick. My wife needs to know-" Wow... "that they're taken care of, um, and they have somebody that they can trust and turn to, um, when I'm no longer here." So that's a, a beautiful thing to be a part of. It's not easy, but, um, providing that peace of mind, that trust and confidence- Mm... and being able to help them navigate through that time-
[20:19] Shannon Warwick: That's big
[20:21] Melissa Jenkins: ... is, it's sweet, but it's- It's humbling... but it's-
[20:23] Ryan Warwick: It's an act of love for the-
[20:24] Shannon Warwick: Yeah
[20:25] Melissa Jenkins: ... person to s- to say, "We need to seek something out."
[20:29] Ryan Warwick: Specifically for-
[20:29] Shannon Warwick: They want my spouse- Yeah... so that they are safe, heard- Mm-hmm... seen- Yeah... cared for. Yep. That's very powerful.
[20:36] Melissa Jenkins: It is powerful.
[20:37] Ryan Warwick: Because it's, it, that transition becomes a moment of vulnerability.
[20:40] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[20:41] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah. Right? Absolutely, and as we talk about this, younger clients who aren't in that position, and the husband is, he could take care of his portfolio by himself. Mm. He, he knows all the ins and outs, and, but I feel privileged that they still said, "No, we're going to get an advisor because, again, we don't know what happens in life, and my wife still needs somebody that she knows and can turn to and ask questions." Wow. "And if something happened to me, you would be there for her."
[21:10] Shannon Warwick: Mm.
[21:10] Melissa Jenkins: And so, so we serve wonderful men and women. Men and women. And, um, I th-
[21:14] Ryan Warwick: That's, I think that's wisdom too.
[21:15] Melissa Jenkins: It's lots of- Yeah... lots of wisdom, and, um, trying to make sure that more people know about that and, and think through that, um, life throws us curve balls, and we don't- Sure... always know, and sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes it's the husband who needs- Absolutely... the help. That's important. Um-
[21:34] Shannon Warwick: So I'd love for you to speak to that
[21:35] Melissa Jenkins: ... yeah, we have a lot of very financially astute women in our client book, and they are wonderful to work with, and they're on top of it, and, um, their, their husband is the person who doesn't have the financial savvy. They, he's the more creative person in, in the relationship- Mm-hmm... or- Mm-hmm... you know, it just isn't his cup of tea and doesn't love it, and s- same thing. I think that, um, it's often with whether it's the husband or the wife in a couple, there's often one who predominantly takes care of the finances and one who doesn't. Um, it's always a joy when they both love it, um, and that's- Mm-hmm... that's fun to see, but it's the exception, not the- Rule... not the rule. Um-
[22:19] Shannon Warwick: And then speaking to that, on these meetings that you have on average annually-
[22:24] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[22:24] Shannon Warwick: ... what is your goal when you have these annual meetings, and, and do you kind of run into this struggle sometimes where they don't both attend, or they don't both desire to attend, or it's not the norm for both to attend? H- how do you address that?
[22:41] Melissa Jenkins: That, um, definitely happens. There are, there are a few, and it's just that, um, I mean, you still meet with them whether they both attend or not. Of course. But it's always a point in the invitation, like, m- make s- "Please make sure that they know-" "... that they are welcome." You're trying. Um, I, yes, I, I'm like, "I think it's really important. We don't have to have this financial meeting. Should we go out to lunch? Should we have a cup of coffee?" I love that. Yes, so just making it more casual if- And comfortable... and comfortable if they don't want to have, uh, sit in the conference room and look at spreadsheets.
[23:13] Shannon Warwick: So I think- That being said- Yeah
[23:15] Ryan Warwick: ... looking at spreadsheets isn't what you mainly do in there, right?
[23:18] Shannon Warwick: No.
[23:18] Melissa Jenkins: No.
[23:19] Ryan Warwick: So I mean, I think there can be this expectation that, "If I come, I'm going to be sitting there. We're gonna talk about numbers, performance, investments." You're absolutely right. "I don't know what these things are." Yeah. But that's really not- No... so take us through a meeting.
[23:33] Melissa Jenkins: We always love our Socratic opener. Throw that out there. Uh, but, um, I mean, first they just walk in, and we just wanna know how they're doing, what's new in their lives, what, what are their kids doing, what's the next adventure on the horizon that they're looking forward to. Just always starting with, "What is top of mind for you? What questions do you have? What's most important? Any concerns, issues, things that we need to address today?" That's where I start every meeting, just making sure that we, we start with that question of- Mm... "What is most important to you?" Mm. It's their time.
[24:06] Shannon Warwick: Just listening.
[24:06] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, listening, um, taking that down first, and then always being prepared, so still having the... Sometimes they say, "You know, whatever. You have listed looks great and wonderful. We'll just go through the agenda." But on top of my agenda is then always reviewing their goals. "What are the goals that, um, you have this year, in the future, every year? Are they still right? Is your cash flow need going to be met by these? Are your, you know, the desires you have with your family, is it, is this right?" And if it's-
[24:38] Shannon Warwick: So has anything changed? "Has anything changed?" Okay.
[24:40] Melissa Jenkins: Um, often stays the same, but it often changes, and, um, I think clients often forget- What we've talked about, and- Absolutely... I need that reminder
[24:49] Shannon Warwick: And often forget, um, we were talking about how many times you need to repeat something in order for it to be learned- Yes... and, and retained.
[24:57] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[24:57] Ryan Warwick: But it's qual- I, I mean, I think I just wanna
[25:01] Ryan Warwick: double-click on it's qualitative. I mean, the things-
[25:05] Shannon Warwick: Yes... the, the- Yes
[25:05] Ryan Warwick: ... the important things aren't h- what was the number of performance- No... relative to an arbitrary benchmark, which we may have outperformed or underperformed, but it's how is the plan progressing? Yep. Has anything changed in that plan? Right. Any new additions to your family, any grandkids? Right. Is there any gifting? Like, sometimes they come in, and when you ask that question, they might say, "Yeah, I just wanna talk about how I can fund my grandchild's 529."
[25:34] Melissa Jenkins: So Ryan, great point, and thank you for bringing us back there. In the meetings, like, the bulk of it is what do you want to be doing with your life? It's not the numbers. It's not looking at the performance- Mm-hmm... or the investments. We will do that for you, but what I can't do for you is I can't know or understand your goals or objectives without having that conversation, what brings you joy? What do you want to do with your time? Where do you wanna spend that time? Who do you wanna spend it with? Mm-hmm. What's it going to take to make that happen? And so, um, we're fun, right?
[26:07] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[26:07] Shannon Warwick: Fun.
[26:07] Melissa Jenkins: We have a lot of fun in here. I think- I know. We and so, like, come hang out with me, and we'll just have a conversation.
[26:13] Ryan Warwick: We, we think we are fun.
[26:13] Shannon Warwick: Well, we think that. But I think that there's a great point here, and we've talked about it, um, with Raleigh, with Kim. If, if something has changed, y- y- you're, you're feeling anxious about something, fearful about something, there's been a health change, or there's been something joyful, a new addition to the family or a new goal, do you want them to wait for this annual review? Or you want them to call you, reach out if you have questions, concerns, thoughts?
[26:39] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, absolutely. We always want them to reach out. Any time there's a big life change or a decision to be made or a question, we want them to, to know that, um, you can reach out. Um- Mm-hmm... you're not bugging me. You're not interrupting me. Um-
[26:54] Shannon Warwick: There you go. Yeah
[26:55] Melissa Jenkins: ... yes, we, we stay busy, but that's because we want clients to be reaching out and working with us and asking us those questions. We want to know, because we want to walk alongside them. We wanna celebrate with them. We wanna cry with them. We want to meet with them if that circumstance requires a little more in-depth digging into their financial plan. But we, we wanna come alongside them in all of those moments.
[27:19] Shannon Warwick: What I'm hearing is you prefer the contact. You, you don't want this to be a once-a-year thing. You want to be walking with someone, so you're, you're seeking relationship.
[27:30] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I mean, relationship is, with our clients, um, is the best way to know that we can, um, be helping them achieve their goal and bringing them value.
[27:42] Shannon Warwick: And if you do that well, I think that's why often you're the first phone call when something does happen. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You've earned the trust. You should.
[27:52] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah.
[27:53] Ryan Warwick: We've illustrated that some clients have recently come to you s- Mm... maybe there was a health event, and now they're seeking out some help and relationship before somebody passes. But have you, have you ever had somebody come who wasn't prepared, who- Mm... has lost a spouse, man or a woman, and how much more stressful can that be?
[28:13] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. Uh, I am thinking actually of, of a couple who I met this year, and they had a major scary life event. Mm-hmm. And they weren't prepared. Mm. And they learned from that and, and so now have, um, advisors and seek that help and surround themselves with the right people. And I think that a lot of times people come to us seeking that investment guidance, that stereotypical financial plan and financial guidance. Yeah. And we often find that unbeknownst to them, and maybe us, that no, they're not prepared. But we uncover that- Mm-hmm... and, and help them become prepared in those circumstances.
[28:55] Ryan Warwick: You, you said they come to us looking for the stereotypical investment- Uh-huh... guidance, and they find that we advise them in life- Yeah... in so many- Yeah... additional ways. I mean- Yeah... we have clients who are attorneys that we're saying, "Hey, have you thought about this legal aspect to your, the transition of your wealth?" Or have you- Yeah. So we are in this privileged position to not only walk with them but to see a very wide spectrum of things in their lives. Yeah. Again, most of which have nothing to do with investments. Mm-hmm. We actually think that-
[29:31] Shannon Warwick: We call it holistic financial health.
[29:32] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah.
[29:32] Ryan Warwick: Yeah, comprehensive wealth management.
[29:34] Melissa Jenkins: Comprehensive wealth management, holistic financial health.
[29:36] Ryan Warwick: Y- the investment is almost the commodity.
[29:39] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. Mm. There are so many things that can impact our finances that are separated from just what investment should I be in, and how should I rebalance my 401.
[29:50] Ryan Warwick: Have you seen, um, a focus on investments where the stereotypical investment things become, uh, the root cause of, of being emotional around money?
[30:01] Melissa Jenkins: Ooh, that's a good question. I'm thinking of, of a couple specific conversations. I think it's really easy to focus on, like, why aren't we in the best performing- Yeah... assets, and should we be in anything besides the S&P 500? Or- Mm... why own international? It's totally underperforming. And so, like, oh, I wish I had a bunch of international in my portfolio this year.
[30:22] Ryan Warwick: Yes. Um, but- So that's-
[30:24] Melissa Jenkins: ... it can, you can get caught up in those.
[30:25] Ryan Warwick: Sure. Yeah. So if the question is, why aren't we in the best performing investments-
[30:30] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[30:30] Ryan Warwick: ... okay, well, fair question. So then are we now supposed to get out of those when they're no longer going to be the best performing? Mm-hmm. And how do we know that, right? Yes. So that's the-
[30:41] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[30:41] Ryan Warwick: ... I think what leads to that emotional cycle. And, and if that's the game you play, you have to be right over and over and over.
[30:48] Melissa Jenkins: It's really hard to be right.
[30:49] Ryan Warwick: And I think it's important for listeners to know that's not the game we play. Right. So what, what do we do?
[30:56] Melissa Jenkins: No, we don't play that game of- Mm... performance chasing. It is-
[30:59] Shannon Warwick: You don't time the market
[30:59] Melissa Jenkins: ... in v- We don't time the market. Oh. We don't market time, and we don't investment select because I can't find you the next Google, and I can't avoid, I always avoid the next Enron. Um, I, I know it sounds awful-
[31:11] Ryan Warwick: But you can, uh, uh, but you can avoid- But I can-... owning a bunch of the next Enron
[31:14] Melissa Jenkins: ... I can avoid owning your whole portfolio in the next Enron. Yes. I will do that for you.
[31:19] Shannon Warwick: That I will help you with.
[31:20] Melissa Jenkins: That I will help you with. And so no, we don't play those games, and it's really hard to get yours, or to... It's really easy, I should say, to get caught up in those games. Mm. And we often convince ourselves, "Oh, I'm not market timing. I'm not- Mm... trying to choose the next investment, but I can just do the, here," or-
[31:40] Shannon Warwick: Mm
[31:40] Melissa Jenkins: ... "Shouldn't we do this?" And, and we, we often talk, we wanna certainly keep the market in context. We certainly know what's happening in the market, and we have market context with how we invest portfolios. But no, that's not the whole game. Mm-hmm. There's so many things around a well-crafted financial plan beyond just what investments you hold in your portfolio. So I can't promise to have the next Nvidia, but-
[32:08] Ryan Warwick: Well, we stay diversified, right? Yes. Which means by definition, we will never own, your portfolio will never be keeping up with the best thing out there- Correct... in the market.
[32:18] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[32:18] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[32:18] Melissa Jenkins: There will always be a part that you love- Yeah, that's right... and there will always be a part that you don't.
[32:23] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.
[32:23] Shannon Warwick: So the part that you don't-
[32:24] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[32:25] Shannon Warwick: ... you are the emotional barrier- Yes... between them and their money. Yes. Right? Because they're in it for the long haul. Yes. It- This is a short-term thing
[32:35] Melissa Jenkins: ... and trying to keep that focus, no matter- Mm... what age you are, I think that's also a really hard thing for many clients, where their plan is they're not spending much of their money, and they don't- Right... want to, and they don't need to, but I only have, you know, so many years left. I, I can't recover from- Mm-hmm... another market- Mm... downturn, like the financial crisis in '08 and '09. Well, y- you can't afford to hold yourself back, or, or your children are going to be hurt by getting pulled out. Um, so just really understanding that, um, a lot of times your time horizon is even beyond you, and, and- Correct... helping people under-
[33:17] Shannon Warwick: Your money lives beyond you
[33:19] Melissa Jenkins: ... your money lives beyond y- you. Mm-hmm. And your goals are beyond you. Wow. And so let's go back to what are your goals, what are the time horizons on those, not just your lifespan- Mm-hmm... which we can't predict, we can't know. Mm-hmm. But understanding that, no, what you just told me is not for you. This is for- Mm-hmm... your son- That's really beautiful... or your grandson, who- Right... or granddaughter who-
[33:42] Shannon Warwick: Let me help you-
[33:43] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah, let me help you
[33:44] Shannon Warwick: ... stay on track.
[33:45] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, and not permanently reduce what, what you will give to them.
[33:50] Shannon Warwick: Right. And I think that really ties in beautifully with, with Life Raft and, and you, we have the L-I-F-E, life, living and family enterprise, and, and really having this, again, holistic view, having educated next gen, having e- all of this family on the same page. Everybody's living with these shared goals, purposes, you know, this, this mission. Mm-hmm. And so kind of that's what I'm hearing you say is stay on point.
[34:19] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah.
[34:20] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[34:20] Melissa Jenkins: Stay true to the, the compass, right?
[34:22] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. So- Stay living in that family enterprise. Mm-hmm. This mission, this vision, this purpose, these goals. Mm. Stay there.
[34:29] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah.
[34:30] Shannon Warwick: Don't get caught up in the, in the noise.
[34:32] Melissa Jenkins: Right. Yeah. Right.
[34:33] Ryan Warwick: One of our investment partners calls it tune out the noise.
[34:36] Shannon Warwick: Tune out the noise.
[34:37] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um-
[34:38] Ryan Warwick: Because it, it's, it's coming, I mean, we get to speak to our clients, you know, maybe two sit-down meetings a year, a few phone calls, but friends and news and media- Mm... and internet get to-
[34:52] Melissa Jenkins: They're yelling all the time
[34:53] Ryan Warwick: ... give them messages every day. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And, and not just once a day. So - Yes... it, you know, it, it's really important that we get to have that cadence of, of just saying, "Look, tune out the noise." Bring it back to real wisdom, right?
[35:07] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah. Mm. And, and we need that cadence. Another one of our investment commentators that we like to listen to calls it that vitamin C. Yeah. And you can't just take, you know- Yeah... the vitamin and be good for- Mm... the rest of your life. Right. You have to have that-
[35:21] Shannon Warwick: It's not one dose
[35:21] Melissa Jenkins: ... it's not one dose, and you're not, you know, set. We need, we all need, myself included, I think my colleagues included, we all need- Mm... to be reminded, um, to tune out that noise, 'cause sometimes that storm get, those waves get really big. The, the ship gets rocked, and all you can see is that storm around you. But again, just-
[35:40] Ryan Warwick: And you just wanna protect
[35:41] Melissa Jenkins: ... and you just wanna protect and hunker down, and you can't see any way out, and, um- You go into- Yeah
[35:47] Shannon Warwick: ... it's, it's, it's human nature. Yeah. Right? Fight, flight, freeze. Mm-hmm. Go into this defensive, protective mode. Yeah. Right? And it, it contingent upon your personality. You're a fighter. Mm. You're, you know, you fly or you freeze. Mm. And so helping people work through that. But one of the ways you can do that is through education. Education. Mm-hmm.
[36:06] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah.
[36:06] Ryan Warwick: That's why money is, is again, so emotional- Yeah... and, and why we think our value is to be a emotional barrier between our clients and their money, not a spending barrier.
[36:17] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[36:19] Ryan Warwick: We, we want them to spend money and have- Mm-hmm... joy and experiences with their family, not just build up something for tomorrow, and then, and then pass it on, because that next gen probably will spend it just, just, uh- Just fine... just fine. Yeah, right. You know?
[36:33] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. Yes. We also, we want our clients to see the joy of, of giving, and- Yes... and seeing their family, um-
[36:39] Shannon Warwick: I'm glad that you brought that up
[36:40] Melissa Jenkins: ... um, experience it now. I think that's been a really common theme recently, where they're like, they're going to have inheritance. It doesn't need to just grow and grow and grow so it, we never get to see them enjoy that and struggle now. I think that's a really common theme that we see with clients today- Mm... is how can we experience that growth and that joy with our children and our grandchildren now, instead of just waiting till the end? So that's, uh, that's fun to walk alongside clients who do that as well.
[37:13] Shannon Warwick: Helping them build-
[37:15] Melissa Jenkins: That real wealth.
[37:17] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[37:17] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah. I like that.
[37:18] Ryan Warwick: Well, and just the, the joy of giving. I mean, talk, talk about that.
[37:21] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah, talk about that.
[37:21] Ryan Warwick: Have you encouraged some to give more, to, uh, think about it, and, and has it, have you seen that impact positively in their life?
[37:30] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah. It, it's really fun to, um, see people give. I al- I always love helping people give tax efficiently.
[37:37] Shannon Warwick: Yes.
[37:38] Melissa Jenkins: Save taxes and give. It's really fun. Um-
[37:41] Shannon Warwick: Oh, my goodness, you're not a CPA.
[37:42] Melissa Jenkins: I know, I know. Oh. I even nerd out a little bit on that. Um, and our favorite line of, "No, children are not charities," but there are still some tax efficient ways to even give to them, depending, um, on the situation.
[37:54] Shannon Warwick: I, I feel a whole other podcast. It's just percolating here.
[37:58] Ryan Warwick: Called Children Are Not Charity.
[37:59] Shannon Warwick: Children Are Not Charity.
[38:01] Melissa Jenkins: I know. I actually had a, a, a client last week also quote how much it costs to take care of a dog for its lifetime, so
[38:10] Shannon Warwick: Stop it.
[38:10] Melissa Jenkins: I know.
[38:11] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[38:11] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah, apparently a golden-
[38:12] Ryan Warwick: Gold is the number
[38:12] Melissa Jenkins: ... a golden doogo- doodle apparently costs at least 36,000 for its lifetime. Really? So-
[38:17] Shannon Warwick: Here's the deal My, my daughters lovingly tell me that our golden retriever is the favorite child, and at times I tell them they are right. That depends on what's happening- Right... at the moment. Right. Yes. Yes, yes. But continue.
[38:32] Melissa Jenkins: Yes. No, it's, it's really fun to, um, see and help clients give, and I think there's just a different level of, of joy that comes from that and seeing their purposes fulfilled. There's lots of different ways to make that happen for clients, and- Mm-hmm... understanding those goals and encouraging them, letting them know that they can do that, um, and that they are taken care of, and I think that's a, a big hurdle to that, is just knowing that, yes, you can give this money, and it doesn't have to be in your estate. It can be now. You-
[39:06] Shannon Warwick: Well, that's one of the things at WW-
[39:07] Melissa Jenkins: ... worked hard to do that
[39:08] Shannon Warwick: ... move mountains, create joy. Yes. So you're helping to move those mountains and create that joy to be able to give and experience that joy.
[39:14] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, yes. I mean, to steal from Dave Ramsey, he loves to say, "Live like no one else so you can give like no one else." Wow. Um, and I think that's a, a really great quote that he has.
[39:27] Shannon Warwick: And you've seen that with- Yeah... for clients? Absolutely. It's really brought a lot of fruit for them? Yeah, yeah. Ab- A lot of real, real wealth.
[39:35] Melissa Jenkins: Real wealth, and getting to just see lives and communities around them flourish- Yeah... to, to your point, Ryan.
[39:42] Ryan Warwick: I'm seeing more and more in conversations
[39:45] Ryan Warwick: people worrying about the impact of wealth on their children. So- Yeah... the, the, you know, f- not- Mm-hmm... not just, are we going to leave them enough so that they're okay? Are we going to leave them too much and disincentivize work ethic or- Mm-hmm, yeah... create challenges around, you know, who knows what? But-
[40:03] Melissa Jenkins: And to that point, I think then the, the giving along the way- Mm... so that they can give and educate, um, and, and see how they do with a little bit- Mm-hmm... right? If you're faithful with a little, like- Mm. Mm, mm... will you be faithful with much? Allowing us to partner with parents, um, wanting to give to children, I think, is also a, a powerful thing we do for clients- Absolutely... of, like, okay, l- yeah, let's give, and let's give in a efficient way. Um, and then let's educate our children on what this means and how- Mm-hmm... to steward over this, and then we can continue to do that and build that generational wealth- Mm-hmm... and education and understanding, I, I think, is a powerful thing we can do for families.
[40:48] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, educating that next gen- Mm-hmm... and having it be intrinsic to the culture of that family. Yes. Right.
[40:55] Melissa Jenkins: Yes, so- Well-... continue that legacy.
[40:57] Ryan Warwick: On that, on that note, I mean, earlier you talked about this high percentage of- Yeah... spouses- Mm-hmm... which we know
[41:06] Ryan Warwick: this, you know, just is a high percentage of women because- Mm-hmm... women outlive men.
[41:10] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, yep.
[41:11] Melissa Jenkins: Statistically speaking. Are not prepared- Correct
[41:13] Ryan Warwick: ... to take on that wealth.
[41:15] Melissa Jenkins: Low confidence in management.
[41:16] Ryan Warwick: But I think the same statement could be said-
[41:19] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[41:19] Ryan Warwick: ... for when it does go to the next generation.
[41:21] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[41:21] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[41:22] Ryan Warwick: To your point, if they haven't been dealt with wealth-
[41:25] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm
[41:26] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm
[41:26] Ryan Warwick: ... well, they're not prepared, v- very likely aren't prepared either. Right. So while it says 84% of women, 73% of men say they're not prepared to- Mm-hmm... handle wealth. Sure. So there's a low confidence for anyone receiving a windfall.
[41:40] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.
[41:41] Melissa Jenkins: Yes.
[41:41] Ryan Warwick: And it's our heart to prepare people, to educate, to give them- Absolutely... real wisdom, to walk them through the planning process- Mm-hmm... you know, the decision-making process of what's important and what's not- Yeah... and equip them to be able to make good decisions in the face of very emotional conditions- Yeah... whether that's right when they lose a spouse or they've lost their parents-
[42:04] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah
[42:05] Ryan Warwick: ... or the market has fallen 30 or 50%, which- Right... guess what, is going to happen. Yep, yeah. Again, we just can't tell you when.
[42:13] Melissa Jenkins: No. Uh, Ryan, you're absolutely right, and, and you know, yes, we wanna help them protect that. We wanna help and see that improve their lives- Yes... and im- improve the lives- Mm-hmm... of their family and their community and- Mm-hmm... um, you know, not just hoard it into a spot, but also spend it well. W- we wanna come alongside people to make the decisions that are going to be impactful for them, right, and when it matters the most. And in, in those times of transition, it is really easy to- Yeah... have judgment clouded by emotions, by other people, by advisors that shouldn't be advisors. Um, and-
[42:49] Ryan Warwick: Well, in Life Raft, uh, Shannon go-
[42:51] Shannon Warwick: Address that. Yeah, absolutely
[42:52] Ryan Warwick: ... talk about-
[42:53] Shannon Warwick: We talk about that in Life Raft. We talk about the fact that people who are in your raft, they need to be invited into your life raft, and they need to be worthy of being in the raft with you.
[43:01] Melissa Jenkins: Mm.
[43:02] Shannon Warwick: If they're not, if they can't be trusted, they haven't proven themselves to be who they said they were, they need to be excused from that raft. Mm. So having this, this, this crew rowing together- Mm... right, they have to be a trusted advisor. Mm. They have to be somebody that has created that safety, that has built the relationship, that is worthy of being the first one.
[43:23] Ryan Warwick: Who asks more questions than give statements- Absolutely... who, you know, who- Yeah... is just willing to sit there and listen and-
[43:29] Melissa Jenkins: A steward, not a fiduciary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[43:31] Ryan Warwick: And have a cup of coffee or-
[43:33] Melissa Jenkins: Can I say that I love that?
[43:34] Ryan Warwick: Ha- hand, hand a tissue box across the table. Right. I mean, that happens a lot, right?
[43:39] Melissa Jenkins: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[43:39] Shannon Warwick: I love that you are willing to meet the client where they are. Yeah. I, I'm not able to come in and sit at that table, but I'm absolutely able to go get a cup of coffee. That's just where I am right now.
[43:53] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah.
[43:53] Shannon Warwick: So I think that speaks volumes to the way you are willing to engage and have relationship.
[44:00] Melissa Jenkins: Absolutely. We, uh, thank you, and, you know, we want to, we want to connect with our clients- Mm... where they are, and I think, you know, clients don't need to come to prepare to be with us. If you're looking for some help, you don't have to be at- Mm... this specific point and have your list all ready or- Mm. You just have to be you. You have to be where you are, and, and we will meet you there.
[44:23] Shannon Warwick: So it's okay if somebody comes in and they are in a very vulnerable space.
[44:27] Melissa Jenkins: Absolutely. That's okay. That's okay. We, we see it all.
[44:31] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.
[44:31] Ryan Warwick: That's why we're here.
[44:32] Melissa Jenkins: Yeah. Absolutely.
[44:34] Shannon Warwick: Well, thank you.
[44:35] Ryan Warwick: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast. If you liked this podcast, please like, share, and subscribe. The highest compliment you could give would be sharing this with a friend. Thank you. The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or any specific security. RW Investment Management, LLC, DBA RW Investment Management, is a registered investment advisor. Testimonials given by current clients are not in exchange for compensation. This document is solely for informational purposes. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where RWIM and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Investing involves risk and possible loss of principal capital. No advice may be rendered by RWIM unless a client service agreement is in place. RWIM is not a legal or tax advisor.