When the Hustle Stops Working

[0:00] Adam Cruz: You're working 90 hours a week, and people are going, "Man, you're dedicated. You're amazing. Like, how do you do it?" And, you know, you can have the right what with the wrong why, and the wrong why is what will cr- create an unsustainable how. You now have success, and you have secrets. I'd give all this success away to have them end-

[0:20] Shannon Warwick: And it's not bad to be driven or have ambition. These are beautiful things that are gifts to ourselves and the world, but they're not meant to be something that, that kills us.

[0:30] Adam Cruz: That is a healed hustle.

[0:32] Ryan Warwick: Welcome to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast.

[0:35] Shannon Warwick: Where net worth meets personal worth. I'm Shannon.

[0:38] Ryan Warwick: I'm Ryan. We help families navigate the emotional, relational, and personal realities that money alone can't solve.

[0:45] Shannon Warwick: If you've built wealth but still wonder what it all means or how to keep your family grounded while protecting your legacy, you're in the right place.

[0:52] Ryan Warwick: We sit down with experts and with you to talk identity, purpose, and connection beyond the balance sheet.

[0:59] Shannon Warwick: Because true wealth isn't measured in dollars. It's measured in the impact we make and the relationships we nurture.

[1:06] Ryan Warwick: So grab a seat. Take a breath. And let's redefine what it means-

[1:10] Shannon Warwick: To be truly wealthy together.

[1:12] Ryan Warwick: This is the Worth- Worth Beyond Wealth... Beyond Wealth podcast.

[1:16] Ryan Warwick: I'm excited to, uh, have another episode here of the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast. We have a friend of ours today, Adam Cruise. Yeah. And, uh, I'm excited because Adam's working on some things, uh, that line up really well with, uh, the ideas and, and philosophies that we're really talking a lot about, uh, in the Worth Beyond Wealth, uh, podcast. The, the... even the underlying idea of, of what is wealth, what is real wealth. Um, and then, um, we've introduced on, uh, some former sessions, uh, podcasts, the project we're calling Life Raft, and, and that's really where Adam and, and I met. Uh, we just had this aha, um-

[2:00] Shannon Warwick: I thought you met over breakfast burritos.

[2:02] Ryan Warwick: We, we did, um, but it was, uh... Then the connection was, "Hey, what you're working on and, and what I'm working on really are... There's a lot of synergy here."

[2:13] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[2:14] Ryan Warwick: And, um, so just a quick intro, uh, for Adam. Uh, he spent 20 years in product design. His work drives more than 115 million in, in annual revenue at, uh, companies, uh, such as Intuit and Zeemee. Adam, along the way, you've, you've had a journey. He, um, is, uh, happy to share, um, this, this part of his life. But his nonstop hustle almost ended his marriage. Um, he did a lot of soul work after that, and through that is, is where you really arrived at this idea of, of the Healed Hustle. So you have a business called The Heal H- Healed Hustle. You take, uh, executives and entrepreneurs, uh, through an eight-step plan that helps achievers keep their drive without losing their, uh, family or their health. Yeah. So, um, Adam, with that, what, uh... Tell us more about yourself- Yeah... and, and what you want to add. Sure. About me. Yep.

[3:16] Adam Cruz: I'm excited to have this conversation with you guys and with your audience, and, um, it's, it's been a journey, and, and, uh, it was cool just to see how God was bringing us together and- Mm-hmm... and the overlap in our journeys and our story and what we're, you know, really tr- trying to figure out ourselves. Uh, you know, and kind of-

[3:37] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. I love that point. Yeah. I, I think we should drive that home. We don't... W- we are not, uh, unique in this space, right? We don't have all the...

[3:45] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[3:46] Shannon Warwick: We're just being real and vulnerable- Yeah... and hopefully in a humble space like- Yeah... yeah.

[3:51] Adam Cruz: Always, always learning. A, a kind of a, a natural curious person. That's a lot of my background. There's just been a, a natural curiosity of, of, of things, and so here I am being curious about my own life and-... my own family and- Yeah... business and all of it in a new light. So, um- Yeah... yeah, happy to be with you guys.

[4:11] Ryan Warwick: So take us on the, on the journey. Um, were you always a, a striver? Were you always a, a, a driver? Uh-

[4:20] Adam Cruz: Yeah

[4:21] Ryan Warwick: ... and then, you know, where did that lead you?

[4:23] Adam Cruz: Yeah, I mean, I, I've always been a, like, a scrappy entrepreneur in that I've, um... you know, for... A decade of my life was spent in ministry and, and- Right... as a pastor, and as anybody that's been in that world knows that you have no money, and you are... And, and, and we also started from scratch, and so it's like you're, you're building something from nothing, and I enjoy that process of taking an idea to something. And so, um, you know, this started back in, um, in high school and starting little businesses and bands and things I did- Yeah... as a musician and traveling and, um, and then, you know, catching a vision for building a, uh, community, a faith community. Um, and, you know, it, it, it worked until it didn't, but it, it... we grew from zero to 2,000 in a couple of years, and, you know, you learn a lot just through the process of building. And but I've, I've always just had a, a desire to make ideas real, and so I think that n- that, again, that curiosity, uh, was a perfect fit for startup life. And so I've been a part of a few startups and started in the church world.

[5:35] Ryan Warwick: So over the, uh, couple of years, was, was that your first taste that what you thought of as success could actually be the worst outcome?

[5:47] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[5:48] Ryan Warwick: Because by all outward- Yeah... appearance, going from zero to 2,000 people in a church in two years- Yeah... was- Yeah. That's-... highly successful

[5:56] Shannon Warwick: ... exponential growth. Yeah. Yeah.

[5:57] Adam Cruz: Yeah, I mean, we... I remember being featured in Outreach Magazine's top 100 fastest growing churches in America- Yeah... and going, "Nobody knows." Yeah. Nobody knows, like- Because the metrics-... anyone

[6:07] Shannon Warwick: ... that they were u- using, "Oh, this is- Yeah... incredible. This is so successful." Yeah. "This is great. You must be doing so well." Yeah. But inside, how are you doing?

[6:18] Adam Cruz: Yeah, and I think it, it is, you know... And it's not the, it's not the church's fault. It wasn't- Mm. It's not the business's fault. It, it was, um, you go through a journey in, in, in healing where you, you unpack a lot, and you kind of look for blame and look for things- Yeah... to kind of target.

[6:34] Shannon Warwick: 100%, you do.

[6:36] Adam Cruz: Um, y- you know, you can have the right, uh, what with the wrong why. Sure. And the wrong why is what will cr- create an unsustainable how. And so that's what kills most of us, is the what was, was good. Absolutely. The, to start a church and build a church. Faith- Yeah

[6:52] Shannon Warwick: ... a faith community. Yeah. Yeah.

[6:54] Adam Cruz: Um, but my why was unhealed.

[6:56] Shannon Warwick: But your why. Okay.

[6:57] Adam Cruz: And the why is what was unsustainable. Um, it cr- it creates a, a, a, a how that, that becomes unsustainable, how being the very practical rhythms and operations and- Sure... what it takes to do something that's scalable.

[7:13] Shannon Warwick: To do the what.

[7:14] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[7:14] Shannon Warwick: And in that timeframe. Yeah, exactly. What, what would you say in that journey and what, what was the why? Because it pr- it started out probably really- Yeah... beautifully intentioned, but then what, what do you think happened or what- Yeah... maybe it

[7:30] Adam Cruz: I had no language for this- You-... till I was in my late 30s and started my healing process. But in the beg- you know, uh, for... I guess a, at a snapshot, building a church for 10 years and then- Yeah... building a tech company for the last, um, six years and then joining Intuit. Yeah. My, my journey at Intuit was in a healthier state, but the f- the startups we built were s- were similar in nature in that, you know, you're, you're striving for, for this thing to work. You're, you're willing to do whatever it takes. And I think mission-driven, if you're a mission-driven person, it's even harder. Yeah. Sure. Because mission-driven people live for the mission, and the mission, it's... It... The, the mission, if we're not careful, the mission becomes a mistake.

[8:20] Shannon Warwick: Wow.

[8:20] Adam Cruz: And when the mission becomes a mistake, you've lost. But when it's working, you just do whatever it takes to make the mission work, and you call that, like, grit or resilience or I have what it takes.

[8:34] Shannon Warwick: Right.

[8:34] Ryan Warwick: We applaud it. Yeah. We... It's like- We do... yeah.

[8:37] Shannon Warwick: We reward this.

[8:39] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Yeah. I think it was interesting. You're working 90 hours a week, and people are going, "Man, you're dedicated. You're amazing." Like, "How do you do it?" And- Yeah... um, you know, and obviously this is not about me. I held team, and we had- Sure... this great, great amount of people. But- People... even in that, it's like some stayed healthy through it all, and some didn't. So why did some stay healthy, and I, and I suffered in, in the journey? And it was because, you know, for me, years later unpacking, man, my why was to, uh, prove that I was l- lovable, that I was enough. Mm. And I had no language for that. When you're building something at 28, 32, 34 years old, you're just grinding. I've got what it takes. I'm gonna do whatever it takes to, to make this work. Mm-hmm. And then you have success, and so then you just think this is how you s-... Like, if, if you're successful, it's like this is what you just have to keep doing. Right. This is the cost of success. It-

[9:33] Shannon Warwick: This is just the way it is

[9:34] Adam Cruz: ... is the way it is.

[9:35] Shannon Warwick: Right.

[9:36] Ryan Warwick: And your- And so-... your reward was people patting you on the back saying- Oh, yeah... "That's amazing."

[9:41] Shannon Warwick: And, and then, okay, I am lovable.

[9:43] Adam Cruz: I'm doing this. Yeah.

[9:43] Shannon Warwick: I am, I am enough. But-

[9:44] Adam Cruz: Well, for me, exactly right

[9:46] Shannon Warwick: ... this is feeding that need, this deep need that I have. Yeah. Okay.

[9:50] Adam Cruz: I got to a point, you know, as a pastor, a worship pastor standing on stage, I would, I would anticipate the thumbs up from- Oh... an executive.

[10:01] Shannon Warwick: Oh, wow.

[10:02] Adam Cruz: Like, that's... It got to a point where it's so toxic. You're just, you're just looking for applause. You're looking for- Affirmation... affirmation. Yeah. Because- Yeah... I'm using this vehicle to be the vehicle that validates that I'm good. Because if my, in my core identity, I was like, "I'm bad." Yeah. "God made me bad." I had two situations in my childhood that came up later. One was, um, um, an, a, a, an authority figure, uh, when I was a child hit me in my face, um, as a lesson because I was being a punk, and I was not being nice. And so it was, uh, I got a sort of-

[10:36] Ryan Warwick: Or you might have deserved it.

[10:37] Adam Cruz: Yeah, I might have deserved it. It, it was, it was not a shame thing from them, but- Right, right, right... or towards them, but- No... but it was intellectual- Internalized... because internalized, like-

[10:47] Shannon Warwick: I really am bad

[10:47] Adam Cruz: ... there's been an authority figure telling me as a, as a young person that, um, that I'm bad, and I took that as, as I'm, I'm bad. Um, ironically enough, about, I don't know, six, seven years later, maybe even a little bit longer- Mm... uh, I was in high school and had a youth pastor hit me in my face.

[11:05] Shannon Warwick: Wow.

[11:05] Adam Cruz: Um, as, because he didn't like the music I was listening to or something, which was Christian punk rock. So kind of weird now to think about. They kind of laugh about that now, but- Yeah... at the time it was a, just a certain time and situation. But two authority figures kind of, like- Mm-hmm... hit me in my face in w- in front of-

[11:23] Shannon Warwick: I was gonna ask. Was this in front of people?

[11:24] Adam Cruz: In front of the whole youth group on a bus on a youth trip. Oh, okay. Okay. And so it's like, it's just, like, it ingrained in me this, okay, like, I will always be... I will always have what it takes then. I will just always do what is asked and what makes me good because I'm bad. So I just... You compensate that. So-

[11:45] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[11:45] Adam Cruz: ... anyways, you don't know all that when you're getting into doing what we're all doing- No... and building and stuff. Absolutely. And so you start building, you grind, and you have success. And then, um, you wake up and go, "This isn't working," you know? And, uh, I didn't have language for any of that for years. But-

[12:02] Shannon Warwick: So you- Do you remem- Oh, g- go. Oh, no, sorry. So it just, it... That's a good segue into this next question about what, what was that turning point or the aha moment where you realized the work pace that I am currently s- currently holding is not sustainable? What, what was that moment? What was that like when you realized, "It's hurting me"? Yeah. And not just you. Your family.

[12:25] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Well, unfortunately for me, um, th- and this is just... I don't know if this is anybody else's journey. This was my journey. I, I wake up every day and I read similar journeys, so I, I bear to think this is not just me, but my journey was-

[12:41] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[12:41] Adam Cruz: ... um, my desire to prove that I was lovable created a work ethic that was driven. I was driven, I was motivated, and I... and, and it worked, and it created success. The problem is I couldn't sustain- Right... the habits that it required to work that hard, that intense. So you have to relieve. You have to numb.

[13:06] Shannon Warwick: Right.

[13:07] Adam Cruz: Well, there's only a few ways you numb. Right. For a lot of people, it's a series of things. Yes. It's drugs, it's alcohol, it's pornography. Um,

[13:17] Adam Cruz: these are the things we don't talk about in business, because they're private- Mm-hmm... and they're secrets, and that's exactly w- what creates the havoc that comes downstream is, is you- Yep... you now have success and you have secrets. Yeah. And now you can't tell anybody. Mm-hmm. So, because if anybody knew, I'm gonna lose the success I have, I'm gonna lose the platform I have. Um, and so we convince ourselves as driven people that we can manage it and we have what it takes, because we've t- we've managed it this whole time- Right... and we've built what we've built.

[13:49] Shannon Warwick: It's fine. I can do it.

[13:50] Adam Cruz: And I can do it. Okay. I manage... I manage this.

[13:52] Shannon Warwick: I'll handle it. I'll handle it.

[13:53] Adam Cruz: I can manage this. Yep. So you lie to yourself, you deceive yourself, and for me, the addictions eventually led to things that, um, uh... decisions that, that were ruining my marriage and my relationship with my family. Right. And, um, and eventually lead to the point where I, I had, uh, done some things that I wasn't proud of and- Mm-hmm... and literally said, "I will be 60 and still this way if I don't change." A- and I... but I had no language, no idea even what to do. I didn't have, like, a plan. No. It was just like, "I can keep doing this and it will end here, and it'll actually probably end worse than what I think it'll end." Right. Um-

[14:39] Shannon Warwick: So it was, it... you knew. There was this intuition. There was this, "I know this is going to kill me- Yeah... eventually- Yeah... if I do not stop this train."

[14:48] Adam Cruz: Yeah. And you have a spouse that is like, "Um, this isn't working, and I don't know how long I can-"

[14:58] Shannon Warwick: I can sustain

[14:58] Adam Cruz: ... sustain. "And so you can keep having your super success over here. I'm gonna leave."

[15:04] Shannon Warwick: Right.

[15:04] Adam Cruz: And, and change needs to happen, and-

[15:09] Shannon Warwick: Sure

[15:09] Adam Cruz: ... we made the, you know, sad decision to resign and, and, um, and, you know, the, the next things kind of took, took on a life of their own and we, we built new things. But I had to clear the stage, and it was the scariest-

[15:24] Ryan Warwick: Without a plan for the next things, right?

[15:26] Adam Cruz: No plan for the next things.

[15:27] Shannon Warwick: Which that would have been for you, because you were a doer and a planner and- Yeah... an achiever. What do you mean you're letting it all go and there's no plan?

[15:36] Adam Cruz: Yeah, 'cause your identity is shaken. I remember a night just laying in my, um... I had a detached garage with a recording studio in it. I remember laying in there and just lost. You know, who am I? Like, without this 10-year career I built, this path I was on to plant more churches, to be in ministry, to do all this stuff, who am I outside of any of that? And I can go apply for a bunch more jobs like that, but that's not at all what I'm supposed to do. Mm. And so it was a very, like, I... it, it, it was down to my core. Who... then who am I without, without- Without this... success-

[16:12] Shannon Warwick: Yes

[16:12] Adam Cruz: ... in the lens that I'm looking at success through, whether it's wealth or whether it's just success in the, in the entity that I'm building. Right. Um-

[16:23] Shannon Warwick: Right

[16:23] Adam Cruz: ... without it, who am I? You know, and it's terrifying.

[16:26] Ryan Warwick: And so Adam, you move... I, I mean, I think it's, it's important to

[16:32] Ryan Warwick: double-click on this, this idea. I mean, you took a big, bold step because you saw a need to change. Yeah. Like, "We're on a devastating path."

[16:41] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[16:41] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[16:41] Ryan Warwick: "We're gonna make a change." I mean, I think that's important for people to hear that sometimes the- Hard decisions-... have to be made. Um, from that point then you, you didn't know what was next, but- Yeah... you got a call.

[16:53] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[16:53] Ryan Warwick: You went to California for a tech startup.

[16:56] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[16:57] Ryan Warwick: And did the, did the cycle continue, or did it immediately get like, "Hey, I've learned now," and- Yeah. Yeah.

[17:05] Adam Cruz: It's a good question and, and it's, it's a weird one to talk about because it's, um... I, my friend called me out of the blue. My, um... a whole side story to how that even happened that's pretty remarkable, but regardless, got a phone call. We decided to go into business together, start this company. Um, and it was, like, not in my wheelhouse, and so it was like- Mm-hmm... my curiosity again is like, "I can b- if I can build this, I can build this, so let's build it," you know? And so we... like, "I'm in." And so we worked for... sold our house on Facebook- Wow... in two days, moved to Boise, Idaho. Stop it. And I lived off my savings. I said, "I'll give you one year." Mm-hmm. And, um, and we built, you know, Zeeme into what it is today, and obviously I haven't been a part of it last few years, but- Mm-hmm... um, raised a seed round and Series A and all that. But what was interesting is is, like, I was... I didn't have any language for what I had just come out of. Mm-hmm. I knew my marriage was about... When... It was weird to s- there was two things happening, which is probably most of us in life is, like, two things are happening at the same time, good things and terrible things. Yes. While we're... while my wife and I are- Exactly... wondering if we should stay married and even continue, we're also, like, leaning into this new idea. We moved to Boise just as a place to land and heal, and, um, w-

[18:32] Adam Cruz: And I didn't have language for, uh, any of our life at that time, just knew- knowing that our marriage was about to end, and I was about to lose everything that mattered. We had a one-year-old and, um, I- whatever this new venture was gonna become, I did not wanna do it the same way. And the problem is, is that there was a lot I had not unpacked with, that Amber and I had not yet healed from. That's interesting. So we went into that season or the last five y- or, or the next five years of that journey, um, pretty cautious and just intentional- Sure... and trying to protect- Sure... uh, some things. But it was interesting, 'cause I'm walking into... So we b- we only stayed here in Boise for about a year, and then moved to San Francisco. Oh, okay. And built the company out in San Francisco for, for a few years. And, uh, I mean, you're walking into the, you're walking into the epicenter of this, of what I just came out of, which is- Yeah... growth, build, success- Drive... wealth- Drive, drive... drive. Mm-hmm. And it was, it was hard, 'cause it was like there was so much tension with what I had walked out of and didn't want to continue to fester, and yet I'm in a startup again- You're-... building from scratch.

[19:43] Ryan Warwick: 90-hour weeks?

[19:44] Adam Cruz: A lot. But different,

[19:48] Adam Cruz: um... You know, it is a little bit of a different cadence, but- Yeah... yeah, 3:00 AM meetings.

[19:53] Ryan Warwick: Oh, geez.

[19:54] Adam Cruz: Um, just because of East Coast, West Coast- Yeah... time zones and- Exactly... just trying to move things forward. And, and, um,

[20:02] Adam Cruz: and found myself, Amber and I found ourselves, uh, yet again, just unsustainable, uh, in the direction that the company was going and some of the leadership. And not to talk ill about some of my partners, but just all of us trying to figure this out. Yeah. How do you build something? How do you- Right... how do you build something mission-driven from scratch, hustle, build, and grind?

[20:25] Shannon Warwick: Right.

[20:25] Adam Cruz: And it, and it works. You raise this $6 million Series A. You raise a Series B. You... It's working. You've got 100,000 users. Like- Right... this is just the cost of what it takes to build, so you just do it, and, um, if you wanna tour.

[20:40] Shannon Warwick: So you said something that was interesting, um, and we, you know, we talk about it in, in Life Raft, but you said what mattered most.

[20:47] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[20:48] Shannon Warwick: And it was my wife, and I had a one-year-old child, and so this is what matters most. Do you think that your actions, your lifestyle, your work pace, everything else-

[21:00] Adam Cruz: Oh, not at all, in the beginning especially. Um, I would say that that's what mattered most. Yeah. But my, my, uh, my lifestyle, my, my passion, um, was for this to work. Yeah. Like at the end of the day, this just has to work. And-

[21:20] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, for me to be okay. For me to have- Yeah... the identity. Yeah.

[21:24] Ryan Warwick: And probably I think what we, what we see also is, is that we tell ourself, and, and it may be true, "I'm doing it for them."

[21:34] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[21:34] Ryan Warwick: Like, it's-

[21:35] Adam Cruz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[21:36] Ryan Warwick: There's going to be- Providing... there's going to be this result and, and then everything will be okay. So I think that's also-

[21:44] Adam Cruz: I would get frustrated- Yeah... 'cause I would think my wife wasn't on board with what it took to build-

[21:50] Shannon Warwick: "You don't appreciate what I'm doing for our family"

[21:53] Adam Cruz: ... greatness.

[21:53] Shannon Warwick: Or... Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[21:55] Ryan Warwick: You're looking at greatness here.

[21:56] Adam Cruz: Looking at greatness.

[21:58] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[21:58] Adam Cruz: Bro, you just raised $5 million.

[22:00] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, yeah. And, and, and she's got, "I don't care."

[22:03] Adam Cruz: Yeah. "I don't care."

[22:04] Shannon Warwick: "I don't care."

[22:05] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.

[22:05] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[22:05] Shannon Warwick: I... And it's interesting. I think, you know, and if she were here, we, we could ask her, but I would venture to say i- if you had just flat out said, "Well, what matters most to you, the, this or this," she'd say, "I chose you." Yeah. "I still choose you." Yeah. "I don't care about the money." Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[22:22] Ryan Warwick: And to interject maybe some Life Raft language- Yeah... we, we've talked about a, a little bit, but it's, what you're saying is, "I'm saying my family," and you believe it- Yeah... is the most important thing in the world.

[22:33] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[22:35] Ryan Warwick: But all of my actions, all of my time, all of my energy, everything about me, my identity is invested in this other thing. Yeah. And that's the inconsistency that we- Yeah... often see, which creates drift in relationship. Yeah. And I think that's what you were experiencing.

[22:53] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[22:53] Shannon Warwick: Because you can... We would say, are you on, do you have mission and purpose together? Are you dreaming together? Are you visioning together? And at that point, no.

[23:02] Adam Cruz: It's so good what you're saying, because I just think back, like the,

[23:07] Adam Cruz: the life vision becomes the thing I'm building. It's the only thing that matters. It's like- Mm... and I think when you look at just life in general, we are, um, not one thing.

[23:20] Shannon Warwick: No.

[23:20] Adam Cruz: I am not one thing. I am... I mean, even in just like a successful life, it's not just finances. It's your health, and it's your family, and it's your- Mm... um, fun, and like, I mean, there's the five Fs. Relationships, your friends. Yeah, there's just- Creativity. Yeah. So we're like multidimensional humans. Absolutely. But for whatever reason, entrepreneurs do not think that way. They think... They don't, they don't have language for that. I didn't have language for it. But it's like- Yeah... I just live one-dimensional. This, this is- Wow... the only thing that matters.

[23:49] Shannon Warwick: That's really powerful. That- And- Oh

[23:51] Adam Cruz: ... uh, because, because my identity is tied to it, like who I am is wrapped up into it, until you can like kinda start to disconnect that, y- why would I live for anything else? Because success is only found in like... I think we're all... What is, um, Strength to Strength? I, we both read that book. Yeah. They talk about like we're all in pursuit of money, power, honor, and title. Mm-hmm. You know? And so it's like as long as those are in the driving seat, like then that's what matters. And so- Mm... for me, it was, I didn't have a vision, and my wife often felt that. I mean, that's exactly how she... She's like, "You, uh..." I had a counselor to- tell me, like, "Y- you have no reserves-... for your family.

[24:37] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[24:38] Adam Cruz: And she's like, and he was like, "What would it feel like to give, you know, less energy, like 75% of you at your job?"

[24:47] Shannon Warwick: And have 25- Yeah... for your wife and kids?

[24:48] Adam Cruz: What would it look like to give 65%? What, what comes up? What do you start to feel? And it's like- Angst... yeah, it's like I'm not, I'm not enough. Wow. I, I'm not, um, I don't have what it takes to be, to h- be successful or whatever. So it just starts to bring up things when you start to allow yourself to kind of think about that.

[25:07] Shannon Warwick: Mm.

[25:07] Ryan Warwick: And so,

[25:09] Ryan Warwick: I mean, I think a, a couple things. One, uh, a story was told recently. Um, they called it the J-curve fallacy. Mm. So I, I don't know how well we can get this to show up. So we've got an equilibrium, and, and we're go- Look, Amber, I, it's just gonna take being below equilibrium for a while- Yes... and then we're going to get out of it, and then things are gonna be good. Yes. But what happens is as we walk along this path, the next, "Hey, Adam, you know what? We need to in- introduce a new feature."

[25:40] Adam Cruz: Mm-hmm.

[25:42] Ryan Warwick: Okay. Hey, Amber, w- I just need... Look, it's only a few more months, but-

[25:46] Adam Cruz: Yeah, a little more time

[25:46] Ryan Warwick: ... okay, but now we start a new J-curve. Hmm. And then-

[25:50] Adam Cruz: Wow

[25:50] Ryan Warwick: ... we start a new one, right? And, and- Yeah... and this, so it's the fallacy because this never happens. Man. Right? It never becomes as great as it was supposed to become.

[26:01] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[26:01] Ryan Warwick: Right? And it's just one thing after the other. Even when there's... Like, I mean, we've seen situations. It's the sale comes, the exit comes. Yeah. Wait a second, $30 million or whatever the number is- Yeah... that didn't change my life. I, I don't, I don't know who I am the day after the sale. Yeah. Right? Mm. Now, now I'm laying in the garage. Now, yours wasn't after an exit, but- Yeah... and so this was your journey to that point. Yeah. At some point you got healing, but you also throughout time have continued to see this pattern. Yeah. Right? Is that- Yeah. So, so you, I mean, you said you're reading about these, uh, stories. Yeah. You're, you're reading about people hitting the wall. Yeah. Um, do you wanna-

[26:45] Shannon Warwick: How would you-

[26:45] Ryan Warwick: ... tell us about some of that?

[26:46] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, what would you, how would you take that at now and say, "What does success mean to me now, and what would I warn against," for, for you so that you're not the next story that I read in the morning?

[26:59] Adam Cruz: So I, I went through this weird phase when we moved. We started Zeeme. We were building this tech company, and then I joined a startup here in Boise called TSheets. We got acquired by Intuit and spent the last seven years at Intuit. But I remember a lot of nights over the last 10 years sitting in the hot tub going,

[27:19] Adam Cruz: ambition, I guess ambition, I just need to let go of ambition, which is the scariest-... thing for a type three... I'm an Enneagram three, and which is all about achievement, wired for achievement. In fact, I didn't think I was an Enneagram three, so I took the test three times. And it was like Enneagram three, Enneagram three, and I was like, "What is an Enneagram three?" You know, everybody's talking about Enneagram.

[27:39] Shannon Warwick: So it's so interesting. I'm gonna throw you under the bus. It was so... When we don't realize, and I'm included in this too, but we don't realize how we're wired, and we don't see it. Yeah. And then somebody points it out, or you take a, a- Yeah... a personality assessment- Yeah... or some sort of a screening, and you go, "No." I, the, the day that you, we were with some friends, and, "Well, you're..." And you're like, "No, I'm, what?" So are you serious right now? No, I'm so not type A, and I, I... We have a friend, "Hey, guess what? He doesn't think he's a type A." And she started laughing out loud. Like-... you have to be kidding me. Yeah. You know, but I think- Yeah... that's a really good point is I don't-

[28:19] Ryan Warwick: You're just living. I don't know-

[28:21] Shannon Warwick: I, I don't know anything

[28:22] Ryan Warwick: ... I'm not a type anything. I just-

[28:23] Shannon Warwick: I'm not a type anything. This is just what I do. This is driven. I'm just driven.

[28:25] Adam Cruz: Just want to build- Yeah... I want to build things, and, and-

[28:27] Shannon Warwick: And it's not bad to be driven or have ambition. These are beautiful things that are gifts to ourselves and the world, but they're not meant to be something that, that kills us.

[28:37] Adam Cruz: That's so well said, Shannon, because I think that's the... So that's the mystery I started to lean into is, like, okay, I'm an Enneagram three. I can't do anything about that. Yeah. I'm wired to achieve. I want to build things. That's it. So I j- on, on this, like, swing the other way, I was like, well, then just let go of ambition. Ambition's bad, and I just have to figure out how to enjoy my life outside of this. Well, that just creates depression because you're just, now it's like, well, now I'm not living out of that. So I used to think about ambition like a spectrum. Mm-hmm. And it's a, on one end of the spectrum is sustainability, and on the other end of the spectrum is, i- is ambition, and you get to pick. Mm-hmm. Do I wanna be ambitious, or do I wanna be sustainable? And it would drive me nuts because it was like there's n- like it, you can't have one or the other. Mm-hmm. And I s- started- You believed that... I believed that. You believed that. So I started to unpack a different view of this, and it was four quadrants, a two by two, and the two by two was on the left side was, um,

[29:42] Adam Cruz: uh, sustainability, or ambition. Mm-hmm. And on the, on the, I don't remember my axes. On the bottom it was, uh, uh, ambition. So in the bottom left quadrant, I started to look at what does it look like to have low ambition and low sustainability, and that just looked like, um, uh, like directionless, is just, like, sort of, uh, not clear on where you're going. On the high degree of sustainability and the low degree of ambition is just comfort. You know, you're pursuing comfort. Mm-hmm. Most of us that are probably listening to this podcast-... and are in this room are in the upper left quadrant, which is a high degree of ambition and a low degree of sustainability.

[30:22] Shannon Warwick: Mm.

[30:22] Adam Cruz: Which is, um, where most of us live. Um-

[30:26] Shannon Warwick: It's a recipe for burnout.

[30:27] Ryan Warwick: What do you call that?

[30:28] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[30:28] Adam Cruz: I call it, yeah, recipe for b- b- burnout.

[30:30] Shannon Warwick: Is that what you call it?

[30:31] Adam Cruz: Burnout, yeah. Unregulated ambition. Unregulated ambition. I call it unregulated ambition.

[30:34] Shannon Warwick: Okay, okay. I call it burnout.

[30:36] Adam Cruz: So then I was like, is there a world where-... that f- what is the fourth quadrant? What is a high degree of ambition and a high degree of sustainability? Love it. And that's where I started to go, that is a healed hustle. Mm-hmm. And the reason that a healed hustle, I didn't eliminate the word hustle, is because it's like to talk to anybody that's driven, you cannot eliminate that, and it's important to understand that we are wired and designed to make and do. Uh, but what does it look like to do it out of a place of a h- of an intentionality- Yes... in sustainability? So hel- I, I wanna help leaders launch and last. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's what became the kind of essence for my journey. And, and again, this only came because I started, um... Well, one, it started with confession. Mm-hmm. And that was the scariest. That was probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my life- Really?... is, uh, to admit, uh, this isn't working. I don't have what it takes. To yourself? Starts with myself. Okay.

[31:40] Shannon Warwick: Okay.

[31:40] Adam Cruz: Which then allows me the permission to go to my wife and say- Yeah... um, m- most of us, it's actually more tragic than that. Actually, most of us, like, we have an affair, we, uh, have a drug overdose. Mm-hmm. We have an alcoholic situation. Something happens, 'cause most of us don't change until there's enough pain.

[32:01] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[32:02] Adam Cruz: When there's enough pain- It can be-... we change.

[32:03] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[32:04] Adam Cruz: So I would say that I had enough pain. I mean, there was, my marriage was falling apart. Yeah. Um, I, I couldn't sustain the, the hustle, the requirement of building

[32:15] Adam Cruz: these things at the, in, in, in the way that I was doing it. And so I wanted to understand that, and this just started, honestly, with just admitting that I didn't have what it took- Sure... to, uh, to do this. Um- Hmm... which then allowed me to confess to my wife things I had never confessed to her, which took us on a long healing journey of, of just taking inventory. Wow. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, like, where are we right now? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Are we okay? Mm-hmm. Um-

[32:43] Shannon Warwick: We ask that question a lot in- Yeah... on our book. Uh, that's, that's the question that families ask all the time, "Are we going to be okay?" Hmm. So I think, I think that it's really important to pause and just... Right? And, and, and to say to anybody listening, it's okay to ask that question. Yeah. That's-

[33:01] Adam Cruz: Terrifying, but it's okay

[33:02] Shannon Warwick: ... it's so scary, but it's, I think, also very freeing.

[33:06] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[33:07] Shannon Warwick: Giving permission to not be okay.

[33:09] Adam Cruz: Yeah. It's interesting 'cause w- the first time I had confessed some things I had never confessed to anybody- Hmm... the, uh, power of the addictions broke. It was all gone. The thing that I thought I would be 60 and, and n- never overcoming was now had no weight-

[33:27] Shannon Warwick: It had no power

[33:28] Adam Cruz: ... and no power because it was in the light.

[33:29] Shannon Warwick: There was light that was shed on the darkness. Yeah. Yeah.

[33:31] Adam Cruz: And I think it's the scariest thing for a lot of us 'cause we're just driving. You're just building. I don't have time to deal with this, I'm just driving. But you have to numb the pace and the unsustainability. Mm-hmm. And we choose our habits of numbing, which is interesting- Hmm... 'cause we a lot of times focus on the behavior, which is the wrong thing to focus on. It's like it doesn't matter about how you numb. Those things have consequences, unfortunately. Hmm. Serious ones. Right. But it's not even about the behavior, it's about why. And that's what I started to realize is, like, no, there's something deeper in me that's driving this insane need to be validated and enough-

[34:08] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[34:09] Adam Cruz: ... and have what it takes.

[34:10] Shannon Warwick: 'Cause pain, pain is something that is actually very useful- Yeah... to talk about 'cause, you know, my background is, is in healthcare.

[34:18] Adam Cruz: Hmm.

[34:19] Shannon Warwick: And so, you know, as a nurse, uh, w- what is your pain? Because the pain, although very unpleasant, is really helpful- Hmm... because it lets us know where- Hmm. Wow... what, how much, and then it, can it... Okay, so why, and then the next question, how do we address it?

[34:39] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[34:40] Shannon Warwick: What's at the core of the pain? Because we need to fix that. Yeah. I can give you something to numb it that's not curative. Yeah. Right. So you're talking about, okay, if we take away and we peel back that numbing agent, whatever it happens to be that we've chosen to self-medicate with- Yeah... now we have to address there's pain, and now I have to deal with why.

[35:02] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[35:02] Shannon Warwick: That's exactly what you were-

[35:03] Adam Cruz: Yeah, and so as I started to kind of look at, like, you know, through the help of a lot of people in my life, just being honest, I, I, I got... I pulled counselors into my life. Yes. I pulled coaches into my life. I pulled other people that I had seen be, be successful and sustaining. I was like, "What, well, what are they doing?" Teach me. I started to study, like- Yeah... w- not every CEO that runs a multimillion-dollar company is going to fall in a tragic way. Um-

[35:32] Shannon Warwick: Were they living in the fourth quadrant?

[35:34] Adam Cruz: Yes, and so you're just like, "What are the, what is the fourth quadrant?"

[35:37] Shannon Warwick: Well, what is it? Yeah.

[35:38] Adam Cruz: What, how, what is the how? And, uh, and what have they learned? And, and, you know, by no means of do I understand it all or have it perfected, but my journey led me through first being honest about where I was and having that confession, and then that led me to, um, uh, honestly just, um, naming the lies that, uh, were driving me. How do I name the lies- Hmm... that are driving my ambition?

[36:07] Shannon Warwick: Wow.

[36:07] Adam Cruz: And, and that becomes the work, and that's probably the hardest and, uh, you know... I don't know. It's, it's weird 'cause I'm not a counselor. I don't know how to pretending to be a counselor, but it was like, this is like for businesspeople and, and, uh, and driven entrepreneurs, we just don't let ourselves go into these, like, parts of our life because-

[36:28] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[36:28] Adam Cruz: ... I just don't have the time. They don't feel important right now, uh, because this is, this is the only thing that matters.

[36:35] Shannon Warwick: And they're not comfortable.

[36:36] Adam Cruz: And it's extremely humiliating, you know, to some degree. It's like, okay, like, this is what's driving me. But- Mm-hmm... to name the lies and realize, like, no, I'm being... My, my ambition is actually- To put language to it, like my ambition is to prove that I have what it takes. That is my ambition. My ambition is to, um, you know, for some I, I heard a, a, a girl one time s- talk about, "I'm writing a book to prove to my dad that he was wrong about me." I'm like, "Ooh, what a burden to write a book on-"

[37:05] Shannon Warwick: What a burden.

[37:05] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.

[37:06] Adam Cruz: You know? Like that ambition.

[37:07] Shannon Warwick: No joy.

[37:07] Ryan Warwick: There's a recent book- Yeah... that, that talks about the pain that entrepreneurs experience-

[37:12] Adam Cruz: Hmm

[37:14] Ryan Warwick: ... is often... So, so whether that started in childhood or, or whatever. Yeah. It could be, "I have to prove to my dad." It could be, "I have to prove to this boss- A teacher... or-"

[37:24] Shannon Warwick: To a mentor, like you

[37:25] Ryan Warwick: ... you know, they said I couldn't do it. You know, whatever it is.

[37:27] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[37:28] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[37:28] Ryan Warwick: But that is what animates so many- It's good... entrepreneurs. Yeah. Um, and of course, you're saying that was animating you-

[37:36] Adam Cruz: Yeah

[37:37] Ryan Warwick: ... and you're seeing it over, and over, and over. Um, so I don't know if there's anything that sticks out. I, I, I do remember a story you told about a gentleman you ran into in San Francisco.

[37:47] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[37:48] Ryan Warwick: I don't know if that, um-

[37:49] Adam Cruz: Yeah

[37:50] Ryan Warwick: ... perfectly relates here, but if it does- Yeah... um.

[37:53] Adam Cruz: Yeah, I can share that story. I was... We were just, we were just starting ZeeMi. We had just raised our $6 million Series A. We were, you know, excited about the opportunity to build this thing and make it real, and we were scaling our team. And so we all moved out to the Bay Area. There were five of, or four of us, five, five or six of us actually, moved out to the Bay Area. And I... As one of our first places we stopped, we went to this coffee shop in Menlo Park, and, um, and ran into this gentleman in his, you know, late 60s, and, uh, was a very successful individual, and had, I think, four or five exits, and multi-millionaire. And- Mm-hmm... and I was just like, "Hey, we're 32, you know, 34. We're just getting started. What advice do you have?" And, um, and he just said, "Adam, just enjoy the journey." And I was like, "You know, what, what does that mean," you know, "enjoy the journey?" He said, "Well, I'm on my, on my, uh, fourth marriage and my kids all hate me." And he said, uh, "I'd give all this success away to have them..."

[38:54] Shannon Warwick: Ah.

[38:56] Adam Cruz: Uh. Hmm. And I remember, I distinctively remember saying to him, "You should write a book," because I'm on the hunt for that book. At that time in my life, I was coming out of a ending marriage and, and, and my detrimental end of, of, of, of that season. And I was like, "Where's that book?" Because all of the other books that are available are how to 10X your sales team- Right... and 10X your efficiency- Mm-hmm... and 10X this and 10X that, and it was just growth at all costs. Mm-hmm. Nobody's writing your story. And, and he looked at me and he said, "Nobody would read that book."

[39:33] Shannon Warwick: Wow.

[39:34] Adam Cruz: And I just remember feeling sad.

[39:36] Ryan Warwick: Hmm.

[39:36] Shannon Warwick: You know, what's interesting,

[39:38] Shannon Warwick: I don't think he's wrong, but what's interesting is once you hit the inevitable wall, everybody wants to read that book. Yeah. Exactly. And I think what you're trained to do is prevent them from hitting the wall in the first place. Yeah. How do I help you not smash your face into a brick wall?

[39:56] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[39:57] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[39:57] Adam Cruz: And you don't have to look very far. It'll, it happens all around us, and we think we're immune. We think we're... Like, "That wouldn't be my story. I..."

[40:03] Shannon Warwick: It's so easy- Yeah... for it to be our story.

[40:07] Adam Cruz: It is. It's a couple decisions away from being your story.

[40:09] Ryan Warwick: So Adam, may- maybe the, the answer to this is, is in the continuation of just telling the, the process that you developed. But- Yeah... when you compare the, um, experience of, of those CEOs, leaders, pastors, whatever it may be- Yeah... those people that are thriving with ambition and sustainability-

[40:30] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[40:31] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[40:31] Ryan Warwick: ... um, what, w- what choices have they made? What... Have, have they s- i- is, is it more intuitive to them to say, "Look, wealth is beyond money. It's beyond power, and achievement, and ego"? Have, have they just gotten that? Did they get lucky? Or are there some common,

[40:50] Ryan Warwick: you know, things that- Yeah... that animate them versus- Yeah... animate those who we're seeing, um, run into challenge? So-

[40:58] Shannon Warwick: Are you saying, can I just- Yeah. Are you saying that is it that wealth isn't just money for them? Are there other things that mean wealth to them?

[41:05] Ryan Warwick: Yes. Because I think- Hmm... I think what happens is, is so often, you know, we, we chase wealth- Yeah... right? And, and that's okay.

[41:16] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[41:17] Ryan Warwick: Wealth is good. But after a certain point, it doesn't satisfy any longer. Yeah. Right? And so then it becomes just a number. Yeah. Okay, so at some point, um-

[41:28] Shannon Warwick: And we've talked about that. When it's being used as a tool that is healthy, and good, and purposeful, blessing your life, blessing those around you, that's great, right? Yep. There's a governor on that engine.

[41:39] Ryan Warwick: Yep.

[41:39] Adam Cruz: Mm-hmm.

[41:40] Shannon Warwick: But when it's no longer a tool that is serving and it has become the thing- Yep... that's, that's when we say that's the warning light. Would you echo that?

[41:50] Ryan Warwick: Yeah, I guess the nature of my question is did some people get lucky? Yeah. And they just-

[41:55] Adam Cruz: Figured it out

[41:55] Ryan Warwick: ... are okay, or, or have they, you know, processed a little better than, than some of us who just wake up and say, "I don't know. I'm not type A"?

[42:07] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[42:07] Adam Cruz: Yeah. I just walked into wealth. I don't know, man. It just, I just got rich.

[42:11] Shannon Warwick: Hmm.

[42:12] Adam Cruz: I, uh, I, I don't, I don't know. I, I think that when I, when I study some of these people that have done it well, and when I look at all the stories of those that have collapsed, there's some interesting themes you start to see. Hmm. For those that do it well-

[42:29] Ryan Warwick: Can I ask a quick question? Yeah. Are you seeing the stories in biographies? Are... You say you're, you wake up and you read it. Is it in- Oh, yeah... magazines? Is it in- Well, the devastating- Yeah? Like-

[42:38] Adam Cruz: ... story is the headline.

[42:39] Ryan Warwick: Okay.

[42:40] Shannon Warwick: It's the headline.

[42:40] Adam Cruz: The, you know... Obviously, I walked through a story here in Boise local to us that, that was the loss of a, of a leader and a tragic ending. Um, and then, and then in the news, you, you know, you wake up, and I s- I-... follow leaders and, and follow people, and then they don't last. Mm-hmm. And it was like, why can't leaders last? Okay. Why do leaders fall?

[43:03] Shannon Warwick: So you saw two patterns. Yeah. Those who were doing the fourth quadrant and those who were in the, was it the first?

[43:08] Adam Cruz: Yeah, the, the, the... Yeah, I don't know what. I mean, you put a number to them, but the top left and the top right. Okay. Top left being, yeah, a low degree of sustainability and a high degree of ambition. The, the-

[43:19] Ryan Warwick: Well, we're not gonna get people to not have ambition. Yes. Yeah. Nor should we. Yeah, yeah. That's right.

[43:23] Adam Cruz: No, that's not the ask.

[43:24] Ryan Warwick: That's right.

[43:24] Shannon Warwick: That's not the ask?

[43:24] Adam Cruz: That's not the ask.

[43:25] Shannon Warwick: But what did you see?

[43:26] Adam Cruz: Definitely.

[43:26] Ryan Warwick: And in the same light, we're not asking in Life Raft- Yeah... for the entrepreneur to say, "I'm gonna stop growing- No... so that I can come back and, and build relationship better." We're, we're saying, how do we, how do we raise up that spouse who hasn't been-

[43:40] Shannon Warwick: Mm... involved in- Or invited

[43:42] Ryan Warwick: ... this thing or invited, um-

[43:44] Adam Cruz: Yeah, what is required to do that? Yes. Yeah.

[43:46] Shannon Warwick: And that's what we- Yeah... start to talk about. But I'm super curious, what did you see? I need to know.

[43:51] Adam Cruz: Well, I, I would imagine it... I wonder if it's the same in what you're seeing with- It might be... with the spouse, is there's a high degree of intentionality.

[44:00] Ryan Warwick: Yes.

[44:00] Shannon Warwick: In the successful.

[44:02] Adam Cruz: It, it requ- it requires, "I'm going to be intentional in these areas." And those that don't- Absolutely... are, have no intentionality. Which is ironic, 'cause in their business there's a high degree of intentionality. It's just not-

[44:14] Shannon Warwick: That's exactly what we-

[44:14] Adam Cruz: It's not, it's not manifest in the life. It's, uh, we, we do a, a, you know, a SWOT analysis on whether our SWOT analysis is working in our business. You know, we, we will o-

[44:27] Ryan Warwick: And then you Venn diagram it.

[44:28] Adam Cruz: And then you Venn diagram it. We will... We are over-intentional about what efficiencies are working and not working, and we kill them. Yep. We kill the things that aren't working. We take inventory. We... Like, it's funny, 'cause a lot of what I built even in the steps of the Healed Hustle is, like, what you do to turn a business around. When a business is failing, you audit, you take inventory. You, you name the things that are not working. You put language to it. You build plans and intentionality about what we're gonna do to turn and reframe that.

[44:58] Shannon Warwick: Yes.

[44:58] Ryan Warwick: Mm.

[44:59] Adam Cruz: And we're gonna redefine what success is. And then we're gonna build the systems and habits that actually will turn that thing around, and then you turn the company around.

[45:06] Shannon Warwick: Okay.

[45:07] Ryan Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[45:07] Adam Cruz: But we won't do that in our life.

[45:09] Shannon Warwick: Mm.

[45:10] Adam Cruz: A- and-

[45:11] Ryan Warwick: So you asked the question what... I think that's exactly it, is the family, the most important thing in the world, is that thing where we often lack intentionality.

[45:24] Adam Cruz: Mm.

[45:24] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[45:25] Ryan Warwick: And, and that is the missing ingredient. Yeah. We have mission and purpose in our business. We have cadence of communication. Yes. We have regular meetings, offsites. We think and read about business. And then we have, uh, in our case, we're saying we transfer key pieces of information in case- To the team... one of us is gone, right? Yeah. So, so that there's sustainability. There's that word. Yeah. Um, and, and we do all of that with discipline and intention. Mm. And then we say our family's the most important thing in the world, and yet we have none of those. And that is the, the idea of the system we're trying to bring, um, is, is really summed up in a word, bring intentionality- Mm... to your family in the same way that we bring it to our, to our businesses.

[46:16] Adam Cruz: And the consequence of that is usually just that we assume that they will understand. They're family. Yeah. We just ass- Yeah... they will always be there. Yep. And they will always understand.

[46:25] Ryan Warwick: And by understand, m- maybe another word for that is there's a high degree of forgiveness. Yeah. They, they will, they'll just take it. They'll take it. Yeah, yeah.

[46:35] Shannon Warwick: They're safe. They'll take it. Yeah. They... It's, it's okay. And I think we do that... It, in some ways, it's like this weird compliment, right? I trust you, you're safe, but I also am not recognizing or admitting that I'm hurting you- Mm... over and over- Mm-hmm... and over again. Yeah. So it's not sustainable for you.

[46:56] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Well, and we find th- uh, we have this, uh, exercise we take guys through where you're, uh, we call the circles of, of, um, connection. And I'm, don't re- claim to be, like, a relationships expert. But what I'm trying to do is look at, like, there are spheres in our, in, in our life, and it starts with our inner circle and our kids. And, and I, I call that, like, our, um, our, uh, intimate community. And then we have the outer circles, which start to be our peers and our network and all that, and those become our transactional community. Everything's transactional at that point, because it's like I'll give and receive. Right. What's, what's ironic in our journey is I don't walk through the door very many times and my intimate community goes, "Oh, my gosh. Adam Cruise, founder of-... Zeni and, uh, you know, leader of a church plant, you know, blah, blah, blah, is here and has arrived."

[47:53] Shannon Warwick: No. Nope. And-

[47:54] Adam Cruz: And that doesn't fool... In fact, they go, "Hey, the dishes need done," you know? And it's like...

[47:59] Ryan Warwick: Well, it's, it's funny, uh-

[48:00] Shannon Warwick: Oh, I love it

[48:01] Ryan Warwick: ... w- last year, I got to, uh, be in a, a s- a conference where, uh, David Sinclair spoke, and David Sinclair is, is working on the science behind longevity. Mm. And he was telling us- Wow... that they had cured blindness in mice. Uh-huh. And he said, "The day that we did that, I was really excited, and I, and I went home and I announced that to my family." And, and he said, "I was greeted with, 'That's great. Here's the trash that needs to go out to the, you know, to the curb.'"

[48:31] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[48:31] Ryan Warwick: So to your point, like... And he's, he was named by, I believe, Time as one of the hundred most influential people in the world, and he has to take out the trash. Wow. Right? And so- Wow... you know, now talk about all the applause, all the- Yes... you know, and, and that is, um, something we all, we all want i- Yeah... you know, identity, and we all like the pats on the back, so-

[48:50] Shannon Warwick: Mm

[48:51] Ryan Warwick: ... um, we have to- We have to- We have to learn to navigate this

[48:53] Adam Cruz: ... we spend, we prefer to spend more of our time in that transactional-

[48:58] Shannon Warwick: And ask. That's where-... circle-... that's what you're saying

[48:59] Adam Cruz: ... than the intimate com- Okay... community. And it's because when our ambition isn't healed- We, our ambition is driven by what the transactional community gives us

[49:11] Shannon Warwick: The dopamine hits are coming- The dopamine hits... from the transaction

[49:13] Adam Cruz: They, they validate the identity. I need to feel... Okay, so my ambition is driven to feel valuable, and loved, and that I'm enough. Who, who does that to me the most? The transactional community. The transactional people. The people that are like, "Adam is arrived, he's in the room." My wife, who reminds me that- Is it be- I forgot to take the-

[49:32] Ryan Warwick: Often they want something, right?

[49:33] Shannon Warwick: That was- Yeah... I was, it, because it's transactional. Don't forget, right? Yeah. Oh, I'm getting, but it's because they want something.

[49:41] Adam Cruz: And then if we're not careful, we actually start to turn that into our intimate.

[49:44] Shannon Warwick: I-

[49:45] Ryan Warwick: Sure.

[49:45] Adam Cruz: So we actually, we actually start to prefer, I'd rather spend more time outside of the office. I'd rather-

[49:50] Shannon Warwick: Hmm.

[49:50] Ryan Warwick: So then, and you've read Strength to Strength. Yeah. We, we, um, think that's a great resource for people, by Arthur Brooks.

[49:57] Adam Cruz: Yep.

[49:57] Ryan Warwick: Um, he talks about the problem that people have when they retire-

[50:03] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[50:03] Adam Cruz: Yes

[50:04] Ryan Warwick: ... is they realize they had deal friends- Yes, man... not real friends. That's so good. And now they're lonely. So not only am I not getting the dopamine hit, I'm not get- I don't even have friends- Yeah... because if I'm not talking to them about business-

[50:20] Adam Cruz: Mm

[50:20] Ryan Warwick: ... we have nothing in common. Yeah. And now, now we have a different crisis, right?

[50:24] Adam Cruz: Yeah. And so that was actually what I was gonna say is the second thing that I saw in people that, that succeed versus fail-

[50:31] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[50:31] Adam Cruz: ... is, so it is the intentionality piece. Okay. Those that often fall or have... Fall is an extreme word, not everybody falls. But those that lose, they just start to lose in life- Mm-hmm... and lose what matters most, is they actually start to become very isolated. Hmm. You start to see people- Mm... and this is when addictions can become dangerous, because you have addictions, you're super successful, you have authority and- Mm-hmm... uh, influence, and now you have to be private. And now you isolate, and then you remove all the people that are gonna hold you accountable, and you get them out of your way, because I cannot be honest. And what happens is you become isolated. And those people, that is a recipe for an unsustainable ambition, which is just m- like, an isolated, numbing out, chaotic pace. You aren't going to last. And those that do last, they're honest about... They're honest with a few people. They're, not everybody, but there's a few people in their life that they know everything about their life.

[51:34] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[51:34] Adam Cruz: They know their secret ambition and their desire that they're fighting through. We all have these, these lies that we're trying to work through. And, uh, but you have people in your life that know those things, and- Mm... and they're not impressed by you anymore. They're, you can be honest with them. Um, and, and then, uh, and then you're intentional, and, and you have that intentionality with, uh, the things that matter most. And, and that's when you start to see people that can handle ambition and be sustainable. Um-

[52:04] Shannon Warwick: Hmm. So relationship and intention, those are the two things that you would say?

[52:10] Adam Cruz: The, that's what I see a lot in, yeah, in com- in common is just- Mm... the intentionality. Versus isolation. And honestly, the intentionality i- is i- even in relationship. Hmm. It's, it's really an intentionality. It's what you were talking about with business and how we, um... The, the right pieces are all in place, and we obsess over those details. We do that with our family. I s- I started making it a goal of, "Well, I'm gonna have, uh, one, uh, conversation with a friend a week." I, I went years, I'd go months. I spent years going months without, like, having a fr- a lunch with a friend.

[52:48] Ryan Warwick: Because you were so busy.

[52:49] Adam Cruz: You're just busy.

[52:49] Shannon Warwick: Busy.

[52:50] Adam Cruz: You know, that gets applauded. It gets applauded. It gets praised. It gets rewarded. Mm-hmm. Here's more money for your busyness.

[52:57] Ryan Warwick: We wear busyness like a badge of honor.

[52:59] Adam Cruz: Badge of honor, that's exactly right.

[53:00] Shannon Warwick: So what, um, on the opposite side of that coin, what do you think it looks like when you start to rest?

[53:09] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[53:09] Shannon Warwick: Uncomfortable?

[53:11] Adam Cruz: Yeah. I have a, there's a ex- Well, I did, I did all of the, I did nine of the, all nine of these things, but I have this e- exercise with, um, uh, I call stop with intention. And, or, or f- pause, pause with purpose, stop with intention. And, and to pause with purpose means, um, what are my options? What does it actually mean to, like, pause? Mm-hmm. For some, they need, literally need to quit their job, quit, sell the business.

[53:36] Shannon Warwick: Wow.

[53:37] Adam Cruz: Like, let go of the thing that's killing you-

[53:40] Shannon Warwick: Yeah

[53:40] Adam Cruz: ... which is terrifying.

[53:42] Shannon Warwick: Cut out the tumor.

[53:43] Adam Cruz: Yeah, exactly. That is pretty terrifying because, again, you're building things, you're, you're scaling things, whatever. Um, some of the best, some of the best seasons of my life were step, stepping away and letting go, and, and m- moving on. Um, all the way to other, you know, other practices of, like... Um, those are extreme situations. What does it look like on an annual basis to get away and to, like, actually take inventory on your life, and how am I, how are we doing? How am I doing? Um, my wife and I do that once a year. Um, she goes away for two days, gets an Airbnb, usually local, and then I do it as well. And w- the intent of those two days is just to take inventory on our life, and to literally, I have a exercise we go through, and we just let come out what comes out over two days, where you give your brain time-

[54:32] Ryan Warwick: You're by yourself

[54:33] Shannon Warwick: By yourself. By yourself. Okay.

[54:34] Adam Cruz: Just rest and reflect. Yeah, we don't do it together. We do have a thing where we do together. Okay. But she needs that time to go, like, "How are we doing?" And not have my influence. Yeah. "We're doing pretty good, babe."

[54:46] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[54:46] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.

[54:46] Adam Cruz: "Just write that down. We're doing pretty good."

[54:48] Ryan Warwick: That's right. That's right.

[54:49] Shannon Warwick: We- You know? Yeah, we have a funny story about that. Um, they actually did a marriage conference and, um, this couple in particular will rate, like, well, on a scale of how are we doing, and I think it's one to s- one to 10.

[55:01] Ryan Warwick: Think so.

[55:01] Shannon Warwick: And one day she rated them at a negative 300 and- No. I don't know. It was pretty hilarious.

[55:09] Ryan Warwick: It was a big negative.

[55:10] Shannon Warwick: It was a big negative. He was like-

[55:12] Ryan Warwick: There were some deep things going on, but- "What?" Yeah.

[55:14] Shannon Warwick: He had no clue. Yeah. "What are you talking about? I thought we were-"... hey and reunite

[55:17] Adam Cruz: I have guys take my assessment on r- how they're doing, and is- it- it's- That's very cool... funny 'cause I, I say, "You should make your wife take this assessment. And then ask your kid to take it. Ask one of your kids- Yeah... to take this assessment on you."

[55:29] Shannon Warwick: That is so perspective.

[55:29] Adam Cruz: And, uh, it's interesting 'cause the scores are often different. 'Cause we'll, again, we lie to ourselves 'cause we think we can manage it all.

[55:36] Shannon Warwick: So that's a really good segue into this next, um, question here. Um, parents who are driven.

[55:42] Adam Cruz: Mm.

[55:43] Shannon Warwick: How do you model strong, healthy lifestyles, right? We, we, we have this realization, this moment of, "Okay, we're not sus- this isn't sustainable." But this is how we're wired, so we have to learn how to be healthy in the wiring. And then how do we, um, how do we model that for our kiddos? What... Uh, is there anything that you can speak to in that?

[56:05] Adam Cruz: Well, I'm in a learning stage right now, 'cause I am with- It's a journey... a 14, 10, and 8-year-old. And we're in the middle of figuring out what that looks like.

[56:15] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[56:15] Ryan Warwick: I wanna navigate this a little differently- Okay... um, on that, on that piece, because I wanna hear from Adam on some of the... Maybe there's some stories of, of now you're getting to interact with people. Mm-hmm. Right? They're coming to you for healing- Yeah... if you will. Yeah. For your program. You're getting to see where they're coming from and then where they go to.

[56:41] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[56:42] Ryan Warwick: Um, and then we've talked about this a lot, because th- this is where we think there is this, this synergy between The Healed Hustle and Life Raft. Mm-hmm. The Healed Hustle comes at it from this perspective of, as an entrepreneur, I have unregulated ambition- Mm-hmm... and I'm going to hit a wall.

[57:04] Adam Cruz: Mm-hmm.

[57:04] Ryan Warwick: On the other side is, uh, often spouse or family who's saying,

[57:12] Ryan Warwick: "We don't... We're, we're losing connection. There's an increasing drift." Mm-hmm. And so we're coming at it from the family side with Life Raft. You're coming at it from the entrepreneur side with The Healed Hustle. So when you walk with them and they get, uh, they move from unregulated ambition into, uh, a high degree of intentionality-

[57:37] Adam Cruz: Yeah

[57:37] Ryan Warwick: ... and, and community, uh, and now they have a, a healed hustle- Yeah... I, We believe that all of the sudden, they're also now going to want to move over here and, and start having, uh, a lot more interaction with family. They're, they're gonna say, "Hey, my family probably has been neglected. Um, maybe there's some pain there. Maybe..." Like, there's... That, that's this, these two th- sides, I guess, are, are moving together. Mm-hmm. Um, so I, I don't know if that's, that's a long-winded, um, question, but what are some stories you're seeing, i- i- if you can- Yeah... uh, of people walking through this journey? And then how does that change their perspective toward their family?

[58:27] Shannon Warwick: Mm.

[58:27] Adam Cruz: Yeah. The... One of the common things that I hear a lot is, um,

[58:34] Adam Cruz: like really tac- like practically, it's interesting with, in the family dynamic. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of times guys will say, "I'm just transferring my my, like, trait of ambition to my kids." Yes. The most common place you see that is in sports- Yeah... in the United States today. You make s- and then I don't, uh... This is a little bit of a tangent, I'll come back, but it's interesting how much we're making sports just a new form of achievement, and we're teaching kids, like, "You can't have activity in your life unless you're achieving, unless you're successful."

[59:07] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[59:07] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.

[59:07] Adam Cruz: And, and that gets modeled- Yes... in very practical ways. Unintentional. And so I'm a very competitive person, I have been my whole life, and played soccer, and want my kids to play different sports. And, um, for years I would get in the truck and, and, and talk to my kid and, and I hear this echoed in a lot of the families that I, that I work with, is like, yeah, we'd get in the car and we'd be like, "How could that go better?" Oh, yeah. You know? Like, "What did you learn?" We make it-

[59:37] Shannon Warwick: It's a business meeting

[59:38] Adam Cruz: ... it's a business meeting now without us-

[59:39] Shannon Warwick: Let's review this.

[59:41] Adam Cruz: Um- Yeah... and I remember thinking like, "This is going to..." I- i- in this process, like this is just modeling what it means to achieve. There's a- Yeah... aspect of that that feels very, like, right.

[59:52] Ryan Warwick: Yes.

[59:53] Shannon Warwick: Yes. You're teaching- I'm helping

[59:54] Adam Cruz: ... them. That's your job. That's my job.

[59:56] Shannon Warwick: My job is to help you get better. Yeah.

[59:59] Adam Cruz: I h- I, uh, about five years ago, I, I made a commitment, and then this comes from some other guidance and mentors in my life too, that have- Mm-hmm... have said, um, "What would it feel like to not make any of those conversations about achievement with your kids, and only about, 'Did you have fun? Did you enjoy that?'"

[1:00:19] Shannon Warwick: I love it.

[1:00:19] Adam Cruz: "And if you didn't,

[1:00:21] Adam Cruz: then there's other things we can do." That starts to feel like quitting. It starts to feel like... It starts to rub all these things that us as, like, grit, resilience, all that, like rub all-

[1:00:30] Ryan Warwick: Growth mindset

[1:00:31] Shannon Warwick: Yeah... growth mindset. Growth mindset.

[1:00:32] Adam Cruz: You gotta, you gotta, you, you gotta- Can't quit... have what it takes. Yeah. Don't quit.

[1:00:36] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[1:00:36] Adam Cruz: So it's interesting, 'cause... A- and, and then I'll ask, um, so I'll ask people about, uh, we, we have a framework called the recharge routines, which are really just about... So if you're, if, if, if you are working all these hours, exhaustively tired, and the, the way that I historically would fix all that is just to numb, so you just go numb out. What's the, what is the alternative? What's the healthy alternative to not numbing out? Well, it's, it's these what I call recharge routines-

[1:01:07] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[1:01:08] Adam Cruz: ... which are intended to actually recharge m- m- my capacity. That's how I can then go give more. So if- Um, it's like a battery, right? Mm-hmm. And it's gotta be recharged. But it's funny 'cause we start to talk about, "Well, what does that look like for your family?" And it's like, um, "Well, I, I listen to these podcasts." And it's like, "Well, what podcasts do you listen to? You know, tell me about an example." Yeah. And it's like, "I, I..." Business. The list, the list I did is business. Yeah. 10X this. It's like, that's not recharge. Yep. You know? Or for your family, you know, uh, "Well, we're in these... On, on the every, on the every sport that my kid is involved in." Well, how many sports is your kid involved in? Mm-hmm. You know, tell me about the pace of like your family life- Right... and dynamic. Again, I'm not a counselor. I'm just talking through like we just translate this ambition, and we move it into our family model and our family system. Yeah. And so you realize like,

[1:02:05] Adam Cruz: yeah, dude, we just... I- we're on a plane every week flying for competitive sports, or we're drive- driving here. All our vacations are centered around- Mm-hmm... a tournament. Um, or... And it's like, what does it look like to introduce your kids to the idea of being bored? That requires you being bored. That requires you not having something on the agenda to go do. Mm-hmm. Um,

[1:02:27] Adam Cruz: it's a little bit of a tangent, but it, it starts to, like r- i- it forces us to wrestle with, like, what does it look like to introduce our kids and our family dynamic to the idea of connection and intimate intimacy- Right... that isn't through the lens of achievement, whether that's the s- the podcast I'm listening to or the, you know, a lot of guys are like, "Oh, I, I run every week with my wife or whatever." And, "What are you guys training for?" It's like, "Marathon," you know? It's like that's not, that's not r- recharge. That's achievement. It's not bad. Go do that. It's just not recharge. So recharge is about things that bring delight without effort. So how do I experience delight without effort? Yeah. And for an Enneagram 3, it's like, "No, I only get delight out of effort." Um, so for me, it was like I, I have this, uh, practice I started doing,

[1:03:22] Adam Cruz: um, where I just, uh, I have a nature preserve near my house, and my goal is to touch the grass every day. If I can touch the grass every morning, it reminds me I'm not in charge. I look up at the mountains, see the sun. This is not about me. It, like, keeps me in my position, and when I don't do that, Amber will ask me like, "Have you touched the grass?" Like you know? She knows. She knows because I need to go out and touch the grass because- Yeah... that's the rhythm that reminds me I'm not in charge. I'm not, like- That's very good... uh, and it, and it has nothing to do with achievement. This is not about me achieving something. I'm just going out and being present in, um, you know, for me- Yeah... in nature, so.

[1:04:03] Shannon Warwick: It's just-

[1:04:04] Ryan Warwick: Well, that can be a new goal, right?

[1:04:05] Shannon Warwick: I hear-

[1:04:05] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:04:05] Ryan Warwick: How many days in a row- Yeah... do you touch the grass?

[1:04:08] Adam Cruz: Yeah, how many days? Right? Yeah.

[1:04:09] Ryan Warwick: Ev- everything can be counted.

[1:04:10] Adam Cruz: Dude, that's so good. I started habit tracking that. Yes. And then it's like, this is not the point 'cause now I'm bummed I didn't meet my seven days, and... Yes. Anyways, it's amazing how our brains will...

[1:04:21] Shannon Warwick: Oh, yeah. I think it, the, um... Have you ever heard the expression, "Fire together, wire together"? No. Yeah. So those neural pathways that our brain builds, right, they're so powerful. It's we get used to something. We repeat, repeat, repeat, and then, and then our brains just wire that in. Hmm. So that becomes hardwired.

[1:04:38] Adam Cruz: Yes.

[1:04:39] Shannon Warwick: So-

[1:04:40] Adam Cruz: The ruts.

[1:04:41] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. So we're talking about... And it's funny, as you were talking about, well, I'm just transferring how I run my business to how I run my family. I've fired and I've wired so much here- Yeah... right, that I've... I don't know how to do anything else any other way, so I'm just gonna do it at home, right? And then I'm gonna teach everybody else how to do that.

[1:04:58] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:04:59] Shannon Warwick: And you're suggesting we turn it around. We force rest, and then we fire and wire differently- Hmm... is what I'm hearing.

[1:05:06] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:05:07] Shannon Warwick: This is, um, sacred rest. This is really good. This was written by Sandra Dalton-Smith. She's a medical doctor. But, you know, I, I'm just thinking it says, "Many of us run from rest."

[1:05:17] Adam Cruz: Hmm. Yeah.

[1:05:18] Shannon Warwick: Rest looks like waiting. It feels like a lack of progress, and I think that's kind of what we're saying here- Right... right, for, for the, for these personalities, for all our clients.

[1:05:28] Ryan Warwick: It can be real- it can be really hard to sit- It-... on a beach

[1:05:31] Shannon Warwick: ... hard to... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

[1:05:33] Ryan Warwick: Okay, well, if I sit here, I better read a business book.

[1:05:35] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:05:36] Shannon Warwick: Uh, and this is saying, "A well-rested life requires a delicate balance between pruning and growth. Some things have to be cut away to make room for what's pleasant, but it ensures that the activities, relationships, and the situations that deplete you will not continue to be depleting." That's so good. Yeah.

[1:05:53] Adam Cruz: And that, that's,

[1:05:55] Adam Cruz: in the step of, of stopping with intention is taking that inventory on w- the, all the things and inputs in your life-

[1:06:03] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[1:06:04] Adam Cruz: ... and, and, like, literally just asking, like, what is serving us and what is killing us? And it's amazing how many things aren't serving us, but they, they're just still a part of our life because the way it's always been or it's what's required to, to-

[1:06:17] Shannon Warwick: And it's what gets recognition. Yeah. And it's what the world tells us is good. And I will just, just for the sake of being honest and humble, I'm sitting here going, "Yep, how many books have I read because they were fun? Or am I just reading because it's on the list of I've gotta read this? You know, I was supposed to read the book on EOS, and I was supposed to read Traction, and I'm supposed to read the... You know?" Yeah. I, how many podca- I'm mowing the lawn.

[1:06:40] Ryan Warwick: We can listen to the fun books- Mm... while we're driving.

[1:06:42] Shannon Warwick: Right. Exactly. We'll do that. Yes. We- Yeah... so funny. But, but I'm just kind of, I'm sitting here going, "Oh, convicted of that," and I don't view it as a guilt thing. Yeah. I view it as, "Oh, that's so good. I'm gonna listen to that because I need to." Yeah. That's a red alert.

[1:07:00] Adam Cruz: Yeah, and it's, I think it's the intentionality. It's like- Yeah... it almost kinda doesn't require intentionality to read the business book. That's just natural. It's like the intentionality is like, "I'm going to, um, I'm going to do something that doesn't... It's not about growth. It's not about-" Yeah. "It's just about rest, delight." Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, 'cause what happens is like, uh, you made a comment earlier, Ryan, about like when I'm in my circle with my friends or whatever- Mm-hmm... and then everything is just about the business. It's, uh, that is actually easy. Mm-hmm. It's eas- So easy... because it's like that's just, it's almost, um- It's almost th- a s- version of small talk. It's like- Fired and wired... yeah. You know? Like, that's just what comes out. But, like, to actually s- because to slow down and to actually have the thoughts that are really going on in my head require me to actually be honest- Vulnerable... vulnerable, and now it's like, dude, there's- I can't. That's hard. It is h- it- it's- it- it requires intention.

[1:07:56] Ryan Warwick: Every time I go there, I, I get teary. Well, that's, um, you know, we're not, we're not doing that tonight. We're just gonna have-

[1:08:02] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[1:08:02] Ryan Warwick: ... have fun, so let's talk about how's your business doing?

[1:08:05] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Yeah, and then let's just go get busy, 'cause busy will- Mm-hmm... allow me... And that's why we measure pace. We actually do inventory on your pace of life- Hmm... because busyness is just a form of, of numbing. Like, we actually get addicted to busy. Um-

[1:08:23] Ryan Warwick: Well, it's maybe, uh, again, i- in this, uh, in this book we've referenced, um, Strength to Strength, I, I mean, he, he references it's one of the most insidious addictions-

[1:08:34] Adam Cruz: Yeah

[1:08:34] Ryan Warwick: ... is, is this idea of workaholism. Yeah. I mean, it, it, it's, it's real. And- Yeah... and so- And-... I think what you're saying is busyness is-

[1:08:43] Shannon Warwick: It's different from-

[1:08:43] Ryan Warwick: ... can be numbing out

[1:08:44] Shannon Warwick: ... because productive work is good. That, that is feeding your soul- Yeah... m- again, blessing your life, blessing others, because that's how you're wired, and that's a gift. Yeah. Right? That's good. We're not saying that. Go sit on your couch, eat potato chips.

[1:08:57] Ryan Warwick: No.

[1:08:57] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:08:58] Shannon Warwick: That's not what we're saying.

[1:08:59] Ryan Warwick: No.

[1:09:00] Shannon Warwick: We're saying that when that becomes the thing, and it, it is driving you crazy and your family crazy, that's what we're saying.

[1:09:09] Adam Cruz: And none of this is, like, u- something you graduate from. So, like- Yeah... one of the things I realized in my journey, healing journey, over the last, really what started about seven years ago, and walking through the, the inventory and the pausing and the naming the lies and, and then the, my circles of connection and my recharge routines- Yeah... and my new vision for my life and what is success, I, I remember, like, walking through all this. I met with a counselor, my counselor. I walked through a lot of my journey. Mm-hmm. And I said, "Why am I still struggling?"

[1:09:41] Adam Cruz: Like, all these years later, like, I've, I've... We're not, I'm not who I used to be. Right. I'm not where I used to be, but I s- it's, it's still hard. And, and what do you do in that situation? And, and I remember him look at me, he said, "Adam, you never stopped using the tools." And I just, I hated it, because it was like, but I already graduated. Like, I learned the tool. I took the course. Yeah. I'm the achiever. Right. I graduated. I got the certificate.

[1:10:03] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. I'm the one who can teach people now. And he said- Yeah

[1:10:06] Adam Cruz: ... "You just never stopped re- using the tools." So back to our conversation of the difference between successful people- Mm-hmm... that sustain and not- Mm-hmm... is you just keep being intentional. It's just this continual repeated pattern of

[1:10:21] Adam Cruz: now I don't have to take inventory on my massive mess of the life I've created. Yeah. Now I take inventory on how's our pace this year. How's-

[1:10:29] Shannon Warwick: Did I touch the grass?

[1:10:30] Adam Cruz: Did I touch the grass? I'm taking inventory on these things that I know will- I like that... predict- Yeah... my sustainability. And I, and I, my neighbor, um, uh, is 82, just celebrated his 82nd birthday, neatest guy, and, um, there a couple months ago he was on his way somewhere and asked where he's going. He said, "Oh, I'm headed to my AA meeting." And I said, "Oh, AA at 82, huh?" And he said, he looked at me and said, "Adam, you never stopped using the tools." And I was like... Yay. There, there it is. Here's this 82-year-old- At 82... guy that's sober for 50 years. 50 years. And he said, "I never, never stopped, uh, using the tools." And it was intentionality, his intentionality about me being sober for 50 years. And, um, and he has a heart now for helping the young person, and so he's- It's beautiful... he wants to go help the 30-year-old who's walking in going- Yeah... "Am I the only one?"

[1:11:23] Shannon Warwick: So maybe that's how we help our kiddos. Maybe that's... Like, we never stop using the tools.

[1:11:27] Adam Cruz: You never stop using the tools. You teach them.

[1:11:29] Shannon Warwick: And then we teach them how to use the tools. Yes. And then we're willing to mentor someone else. And I, I don't have all the answers. I'm not perfect, but I'm using the tools. Yeah. Could I show you how to use the tools?

[1:11:37] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:11:38] Shannon Warwick: Could I use the tools with you? Yep. Yeah. Exactly. I like that. That's really good.

[1:11:43] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:11:43] Ryan Warwick: One of the things, um, been talking about here, uh, both of you, is rest.

[1:11:47] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[1:11:47] Ryan Warwick: And, and I just love this from, from another book. It, it says, "We often, we too often look at rest as this thing that is the reward we get when the work is done- Hmm... but the work is never done." Wow. Right?

[1:12:03] Shannon Warwick: Well, that's a J curve.

[1:12:04] Adam Cruz: That's the J. That's right. Yeah.

[1:12:05] Ryan Warwick: The work is never done- Never... so when can I rest? So the problem then is you are always working from a place of exhaustion. Man, that's it. And so we have to change that dynamic somehow, and I think you're, you're walking through a process, and we're trying to do the same of- Mm-hmm... of saying, "Okay, we need to rest, and then work out of a place of rest- Yeah... and, and experience joy out of a place of rest from the fruit of that work that we, that we-"

[1:12:35] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[1:12:35] Adam Cruz: But you can't do that until your identity isn't tied to the success or find- That's good... in the business or the money or the bank account or the- Yeah... idol. Yes. You cannot do that. It is impossible. And until you heal that, like, that's the journey we're all on is, like, now I can, I'm resting in an identity that's beyond me.

[1:12:56] Ryan Warwick: So how do you get people to, as you're walking with them- Yeah... to understand that, one, my identity is somehow wrapped up in something it shouldn't be- Yeah... and then change? Because, as you said, you're not a counselor, so we might think that that's the work of a counselor.

[1:13:11] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I'm probably just introducing you to, like, ideas that you're gonna need, like, deeper help with. But, uh, you know, so much of it just starts with, uh, the, the inventory and the auditing and, like- Yeah... being honest about where I'm at. I call it the ambition collapse, but the ambition collapse really starts with, um, you know, uh, no language for sustainability, but maybe your mission is small. So maybe you're a new entrepreneur. You're just getting started. Mm-hmm. You're building something new. Maybe you're young. Um- But the, the, the ambition is small, the mission is small, and so the, uh, sustainability you don't really have any language for. But what happens is then the mission grows, and that was the case. Zero to 2,000 in two years. Series A, $6 million. Scale the team. Like, you start to grow. You get influence, authority, power, whatever you're after.

[1:14:06] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[1:14:08] Adam Cruz: We think our ambition-

[1:14:09] Ryan Warwick: It grows because n- the same level of success wouldn't give the dopamine hit. Exactly. Right? So it has to be bigger.

[1:14:15] Adam Cruz: It has to be bigger. Right? Yep. And, and again, our ambition and wiring is driving success. The thing is that we believe our mindset, our toxic mindset, is that my broken ambition will stay small. So my need to prove that I'm enough will stay small even though the company's growing big. The, the, the reality is is that thing is amplified. Okay. So now my ambition and my, my core need to prove that I'm enough is just now 10X. Mm. So be very careful about how successful you want to get with a broken ambition, because then it creates the ambition trap. And the ambition trap is basically anybody... Like, take Lance Armstrong. Mm-hmm. The pinnacle of his career, the best to ever do it, can't tell anybody he's honest, has his first interview post-fall and says, "I've never been more free." It's out. Like, he lost everything, it collapsed. Mm-hmm. But he talked about how y- like, it's finally out, because for years it wasn't. For years it was hidden. The success ramps up. You're at the top of your thing, and your ambition is driving this. It's not decreasing. Your, your need to prove that you're enough is not low, it is maxed out, and if you're not honest and open, that's what creates the, the, i- in the end, the collapse for a lot of us where we, we end up losing what matters most. Lose my family. Yeah. Lose my marriage. Lose the job, lose the company.

[1:15:49] Adam Cruz: Um- Lose your soul. Lose your soul, yeah.

[1:15:52] Shannon Warwick: Can you talk about the hustle meter? Is this a good part- Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[1:15:55] Adam Cruz: So the hustle meter was my attempt to ask myself, how can I not do this-

[1:16:02] Shannon Warwick: Yeah. How do I-

[1:16:02] Adam Cruz: ... on a seven-year cycle? Uh-huh. You know, where it's like, okay, we are toxic and broken and all this stuff. How do we actually do this in, um... I wanted something repeatable and approachable. Mm-hmm. So how do we make a, uh, regulated ambition, how do we make healed hustle- Mm-hmm... uh, regul- r- uh, repeated and approachable? Mm-hmm. And so what I basically did was, was created seven levels to, from healthy, um,

[1:16:33] Adam Cruz: uh, to escape. And so H, hustle, it's an acronym. Hustle- Okay... is, uh, healthy and E is escape. And escape is at the bottom. And we're all moving through this meter all the time. We're moving up and down it. And I wanted a tool that I could use weekly. Like, every seven days or five days, I could call Ryan and go like, "Hey, here's where I'm at on the hustle meter." Mm-hmm. And it just goes through a series of questions of where are you at, you know? Mm-hmm. From, from, um, from healthy to, um, you know, uh, the, the U is, um... I'm trying to g- actually forgetting the, the, like forgetting priorities. Um, and then the S is stressed, and the, uh, T is, um, um, a turning point. Mm-hmm. And then the L is, like, I'm losing, and then the E is escape. And so what happens is we go from, like, I'm, hey, I'm just stressed. I'm super stressed right now. I'm moving towards, like, a turning point where I'm actually going to start, like, losing, uh, um, my intentionality, losing my- Right... uh, sustainability. And then eventually when we get to escape, we're just hunting for a way out. Either we're- Mm-hmm... now for an addict, that's gonna be numbing and relapse. Mm-hmm. For some in a lot of traumatic situations, it's I want out of this marriage. I want out- Mm... of this life. I wish I could quit my job and just leave, you know? I'm leaving it all. Um, so we're just hunting for escape. So the question l- kind of weekly is, like, how do you start to move back towards healthy? Mm-hmm. What is healthy? How do you define healthy? Well, healthy is going, am I taking inventory? Am I learning to pause with purpose? Am I, um, naming the lies going on in my life? Mm-hmm. Um, am I prioritizing connection with my intimate circle? Uh, do I have my recharge routines? And am I making progress towards the life vision I wrote for myself? So I have an exercise where you redefine success and kind of how EOS does it, where you have the rocks and the, like, here's the things I'm actually going after, success in my life, and here's the things that will get me there. Mm-hmm. And, and, and in- taking inventory on the progress you're making. And so it was like taking this big, long, kind of eight-step healed hustle and going, how do you do this every week, like, just in a routine, in a rhythm, in a practice? Mm-hmm. So I created the hustle meter- I love it... which is just, uh, it's actually a worksheet you can do. Uh, we'll build an app for it, but you can just take inventory on your life in a, like, weekly way. And eventually it just becomes language and-

[1:19:11] Shannon Warwick: Yeah

[1:19:12] Adam Cruz: ... and you're, you have two or three people that really know your story and who you are and what drives you. Mm-hmm. And you can just be honest, like, "Here's where I'm at on the hustle meter." Yeah. And here's... And so then the question for the accountability person is, like, so what's your commitment to move back towards healthy?

[1:19:28] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm. So that's good because, you know, we just talked about the, the whole rest thing, and then the hustle meter. So how do you stay... If you're, if, if you're a driven person and you are used to putting out a lot of energy, you have ambition. We said it's not bad, it just needs... Well, I, A, I said the governor on the engine, right? Yeah. Because then we don't rev it so high that the engine just explodes. No, we're letting the engine keep running, just governing it. Um, how do you stay creative when you add more rest than most entrepreneurs think is possible? You know, that pushback of, like, "I can't I can't step away. Mm. Can't take that break. D- have you run into that?

[1:20:02] Adam Cruz: Yeah, so you're-

[1:20:03] Shannon Warwick: I guess with yourself and others.

[1:20:04] Adam Cruz: ... you're, you're, you're putting, you're resting too much kind of thing? Is that-

[1:20:06] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, like, um, how am I gonna do all this? How am I gonna be creative? How am I going to be ambitious- Yeah... if I add rest? Yeah. How do I keep-

[1:20:13] Adam Cruz: There's a book, uh, called W-

[1:20:14] Ryan Warwick: How do I take two days away, Adam?

[1:20:16] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:20:17] Shannon Warwick: Days, yeah.

[1:20:17] Ryan Warwick: I will have 400 emails in my inbox. Yeah, yeah. That's impossible. I- And nobody else can answer those except me.

[1:20:23] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, yep.

[1:20:24] Adam Cruz: And this is really hard when you're in a startup.

[1:20:26] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.

[1:20:27] Shannon Warwick: Hey. Like- Yes

[1:20:27] Adam Cruz: ... nobody gets paid if we don't, this doesn't work.

[1:20:30] Shannon Warwick: Yes. And you, and you said something toward the beginning of the podcast, you know, maybe it is something really hardcore, like you have to quit your job, and for some people they're like, "I ca- I can't."

[1:20:42] Adam Cruz: Yeah, can't quit my job. It is a c- that is a tough question I'm always answering is as I'm building the, The Healed Hustle, it's not s- it's not, I, it doesn't, uh, I don't know what the word is. It, it's ironic that I have to ask myself, am I healing? Like, am I-

[1:20:59] Shannon Warwick: Am I doing it? Am I-

[1:21:00] Adam Cruz: ... am I doing, am I resting e- as I'm building, you know, the things I'm building out?

[1:21:04] Shannon Warwick: I think it's good- Um-... because it's lived experience

[1:21:07] Adam Cruz: ... the, the couple of thoughts that come to mind, um, uh, Jake Knapp wrote a book called Make Time. They were the, uh, des- the, the, the guys who built Gmail.

[1:21:18] Shannon Warwick: No.

[1:21:18] Adam Cruz: And, uh, they wrote a book called Make Time, and in their book Make Time, they talk, uh, the, the... one of the interviewers asked them, "Do you guys think..." 'Cause they were, they were basically making a case for what you're saying, which is like, you've got to sh- to turn off. You have to learn- Mm-hmm... the art of slowing down. And they have a, a framework and a case study- Ooh... for how slowing down will actually help you go farther.

[1:21:44] Shannon Warwick: Agreed.

[1:21:44] Adam Cruz: And there's evidence behind this. Yeah. If you wanna go far, you actually have to have these intentional rhythms. That will help you go far. And they're like, "Yeah, but would Gmail have ever become what it became, or Google become whatever it became?" Right. And they had a fascinating answer. He said, "I actually think it would've been 10 times what it is today- No way... had, had we gone slower." He said, "I think we actually limited the impact that it has today because we went fast, and we didn't stop, and we're exhausted, and we lost our..." It was an interesting philosophy. I don't know that- Yeah... that's true in every situation. Well- The-

[1:22:18] Ryan Warwick: Go ahead.

[1:22:20] Adam Cruz: The, the, the, the point being that, um, there's a, there's a, an idea that actually slowing down and having these rhythms, your most intentional thoughts are in the shower or out on the walk, you know? Like- Mm... those are some of your best ideas, but if you never give yourself the s- space or time for that, it doesn't happen. Um-

[1:22:40] Shannon Warwick: Give yourself time to shower, please. That, I-

[1:22:43] Adam Cruz: And they talk about smell the shampoo.

[1:22:46] Shannon Warwick: Oh.

[1:22:46] Adam Cruz: Smell the shampoo is a philosophy in Make Time, and it, I, I loved the theory behind it. When is the last time you sme- you actually noticed the smell? Oh. 'Cause you were so present in your life-

[1:22:57] Shannon Warwick: I just have to wash my hair and get out of the shower

[1:22:59] Adam Cruz: ... that, that you- It's steam, yeah... smelled the shampoo. Smell the shampoo. You actually noticed the smell. Um-

[1:23:04] Shannon Warwick: Okay.

[1:23:05] Ryan Warwick: I would just add in a, a, a program that, that I'm part of called Strategic Coach. Um, the, the whole foundation of the program begins with the entrepreneurial time system. Mm. So which starts with free days.

[1:23:21] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[1:23:21] Adam Cruz: Wow.

[1:23:22] Ryan Warwick: A free day is 24 hours of no reading, thinking, or talking about business.

[1:23:29] Shannon Warwick: This is hard for you.

[1:23:30] Ryan Warwick: And it's,

[1:23:32] Ryan Warwick: it's a learned, um,

[1:23:35] Ryan Warwick: uh, skill. Yeah.

[1:23:37] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[1:23:38] Ryan Warwick: Um, the, uh, tension in the room when, when the coach tells you you can't check email on a free day, you can't read books. "Wait a second, but I like, I like those books." Yeah. "But, but can I check email for just 60 seconds?"

[1:23:52] Shannon Warwick: Just one second, yeah.

[1:23:52] Ryan Warwick: The problem is what, what's in that email, right?

[1:23:54] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:23:54] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm.

[1:23:54] Ryan Warwick: And, and so, so free days are the foundation. And, and Dan Sullivan, who created that concept, who also wrote the books that many people are now familiar with- Mm-hmm... 10X Is Easier Than 2X- Yeah... Who Not How, The Gap and The Gain, some great ideas, uh, coming out of that program and, and, and from Dan. But he says in his more than 30 years of working with and coaching entrepreneurs, there is a direct correlation between the amount of time they take off and the success of their business. Wow. Direct correlation. Wow. So the more time you take off- Wow... the greater the success. Wow. Fas- You know, backing up what- Yeah... what Jason, or Jake Knapp said- Yeah... in, in that book. Yep. Um, but it's, it's hard. And it, and it's funny because he walks people through a continuum of, of taking free days. I mean, we are adults. We have to be taught how to take a day off?

[1:24:56] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:24:56] Ryan Warwick: But yes, because you start with a day off away- Yeah... and completely scheduled, okay? Wow. And the reason is if you don't have, if you have downtime, so if you just go sit at the pool- Yeah... guess what? I'm getting on the phone, I'm gonna read that book. So you have to have everything planned out, mapped out. We're gonna go take a fishing trip, the, we're gonna go on a hike- Yep... whatever that may be. Um, then you can, you know, once you master a day away with, uh, a complete, uh, schedule of activities for that day, y- well, now we can move to a day at home that's completely scheduled, okay? Mm. So we, we, we still have to have everything scheduled- Yeah... but we don't have to go away now. Yeah. And then when we've mastered that, we can move to I can go away on vacation, but n- you know, I can have some unscheduled time because now I've, I'm getting better. I'm... It, it's actually a process of healing from an addiction. Yeah. Right? And then finally, when you've mastered a free day, you can stay at home, uh, and have, have it unstructured or unscheduled. So it's- Wow... it's pretty fascinating, um, to watch a group of 60 adults in a room be told that you have to take a free day, and no, you can't check email and, and you can't read a book.

[1:26:14] Shannon Warwick: Start twitching like they need their next morphine hit.

[1:26:16] Ryan Warwick: Yeah. Yeah. It's, um- But it speaks to the depth of the problem. Yeah

[1:26:20] Adam Cruz: I heard a leader say, um, that I really respect, uh, uh, just a, a, a friend, but, um, that's been, done well in his life, and he said, um, you know, "I just choose to let my family limit my, uh, s- my, uh, business impact." And-

[1:26:37] Shannon Warwick: Mm. That's really sweet

[1:26:38] Adam Cruz: ... and it was just an int- it's an intentionality.

[1:26:40] Ryan Warwick: Yes.

[1:26:40] Shannon Warwick: Mm-hmm

[1:26:41] Adam Cruz: Like, I'm going... Uh, versus the other way around. We usually, like, I'm gonna let my business limit my- Yeah... family engagement, and it's like I'm gonna let my family engagement limit how much success I can have, and it's like phew, that feels in- that's like a deg- you know, there's not a how in there. It's just a, a philosophy, a mindset- Wow... a way of- Mm-hmm... of thinking about life and what success really is. And-

[1:27:04] Ryan Warwick: It's a mindset of, of wisdom. Yeah. Right?

[1:27:07] Shannon Warwick: That's what the guy told you-

[1:27:08] Ryan Warwick: It's, it's going against-

[1:27:08] Shannon Warwick: ... at the coffee shop. Enjoy your life.

[1:27:09] Ryan Warwick: It's going against-

[1:27:10] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Enjoy your life

[1:27:10] Ryan Warwick: ... the grain. Enjoy your life. Right? Mm-hmm. And I, and I think that's so often, uh, wisdom is contrarian.

[1:27:17] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:27:17] Ryan Warwick: I mean, we, we talk about that all the time. To be a good investor, you have to be a contrarian. Yeah. I think that if, if what... If our philosophies are widely accepted by everyone around us, maybe we need to, uh- Wow... question that.

[1:27:29] Shannon Warwick: Question that.

[1:27:29] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:27:30] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[1:27:30] Adam Cruz: That's good.

[1:27:31] Ryan Warwick: Um, yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that, that's coming up for me

[1:27:37] Ryan Warwick: as we continue to talk, and, and we already knew this, this is why we're talking, is just the, the commonality or the, the synergies between Life Raft and Healed Hustle. So you talk about intentionality. I mean, that is, in Life Raft, the thing that, uh, I guess it's this moment of saying we're gonna move from unintentional in the family to intentional. We're, we're going to apply that same discipline to our lives. Yeah. Uh, so for you it's, it's saying we're gonna be intentional. Hey, entrepreneur, we're gonna be intentional. Yeah. We're trying to say, "Hey, entrepreneur, we need to... and, and family, we need to be intentional." Yeah. Um, mission and purpose, right? Yeah. What is our why? Let's, let's maybe define and, and heal that why. Let's create the rhythms and patterns. I, I loved how you, you know, touch the grass every day and, you know, the, the confession, the take inventory, so you, you know, you have a regular rhythm and pattern for- Yeah... sustaining that. This isn't a... We talk about this a lot in the book that we're writing. This isn't something you can do once- Mm... and say, "I did that. We, we went through... Hey, Shannon, here's, here's an education on the, the balance sheet. Here's where things are. Here's the will. Put it on a shelf. It's done." Nope, that's not good enough. Yeah. Right? Things change. Things need to be updated- Mm... because all of this is about creating a life that flourishes. That's it. Right? The entrepreneur, yeah, I mean, you're, you're trying to help them get to a place of flourishing. Yeah. We're trying to help the family get to a place of flourishing. Yeah. And those, those two ideas really come together. The, the final piece in our model is what we call life moments. Celebrations. Yeah. I mean, that's the... I, I think you, you know, when you were talking about

[1:29:35] Ryan Warwick: moving from a place of, "Hey, son, what could you have done better- Yeah... in your basketball game?" to- Mm-hmm... "Did you have fun?"

[1:29:45] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:29:45] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[1:29:45] Ryan Warwick: Like, that's a celebration.

[1:29:46] Shannon Warwick: It is.

[1:29:47] Ryan Warwick: We- we're celebrating today because you got to go have fun- Yeah... on the basketball court- Yeah... or, you know, whatever that is, and we, we so often miss that. Yeah. We, we have the success in the business, the, the exit, we, we raise the funds, and now we're just onto the next challenge. Yeah. We're onto the next hurdle, you know? Right. We don't slow down. Um, what comes up for you in, in all of that?

[1:30:14] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, I just keep thinking that in order for people to be successful with the Life Raft journey, they have to take this personal Healed Hustle journey often. Yeah. Right? So, and it's funny you talked about pausing, and we talk about that in Life Raft, and we'll say permission to pause.

[1:30:34] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:30:35] Shannon Warwick: And I guess right now I would just say, hey, here's some permission to pause. Do a little inventory. Um, walk away with one... We'll have you give one little simple- Yeah... habit that someone could do to try this week that could line up ambition with intention. We'll, we'll get there, but I guess what I'm saying is let's take a minute to pause and say, okay, what i- what is coming up for us? I know things have come up for me. I would assume things have come up for you, maybe even you, right? Because none of us here, this isn't prescriptive, none of us are, are saying we're counselors. Yeah. We have all the answers. Our lives are perfect. We are saying-

[1:31:08] Ryan Warwick: Yeah, none of us are saying we have now- No... arrived. This is all easy for us.

[1:31:13] Shannon Warwick: Oh- Yeah.... I want to absolutely... Let's, let's say that again a little bit louder. We don't have the answers, but we have come into a space where we want this wellness, and then we want you to have it, too. Yeah. And so we're willing to be vulnerable-

[1:31:27] Adam Cruz: Yeah

[1:31:28] Shannon Warwick: ... and invite you into a journey with us. And so-

[1:31:31] Adam Cruz: A journey that has worked.

[1:31:33] Shannon Warwick: Yeah

[1:31:33] Adam Cruz: Like, a journey that has- We're seeing positive-... bring transformation

[1:31:36] Shannon Warwick: ... we are seeing positive outcomes. Yes, absolutely. We are seeing it. Yeah. Right? Um, and it came from places of pain- Yeah... places of intentionality, places of doing assessments and realizing we were lacking here. Yeah. We have to, we have to correct this. It's, we're out of balance.

[1:31:53] Adam Cruz: Mm.

[1:31:53] Shannon Warwick: And so then we're just saying, wow, you know, could, could, could we invite you in? And so permission to pause for anybody listening and to say, "Okay, maybe I'm a little bit off here, and I want this for my family, but I do recognize that I need to heal here." Yeah. Um, so what, what would be one little thing that you could say, "Take this away and try this"?

[1:32:12] Adam Cruz: Yeah. I think the, um, the first, like, little exercise of taking inventory is, um, um, the Patterson Leadership Center has these four questions I, that I like, um, that I think is a great place to start. Um, and it is what is working? What is wrong?... what is missing and what is broken. And so, um, this is just a quick little exercise you can do to start the conversation of, like, inventory, um, is, you know, look- and you're looking at your whole life. You're looking at your family, you're looking at your marriage, you're looking at your individual life. What is working? And you just make a list. Make a list of what's working. Mm-hmm. Uh, what is wrong, something that you know, like, this is just wrong. This, this is not working. Mm-hmm. Are there anything missing, and is there anything broken? Mm. Which could be right, just needs to be fixed.

[1:33:01] Ryan Warwick: Yep.

[1:33:02] Adam Cruz: Um, that's a great place to just start to go-

[1:33:05] Shannon Warwick: Mm

[1:33:05] Adam Cruz: ... how are we doing, you know? Uh-

[1:33:07] Shannon Warwick: Yeah, how am I doing?

[1:33:08] Adam Cruz: How am I doing? And, uh, and I think that all leads to the one nugget that I would say for in, in, in relationship to the Healed Hustle and Life Wrap and stuff is, um, just allow yourself as you look at that list and the answers to ask yourself, "Why am I really doing what I'm doing?" Just, uh, as a thought exercise, like, "Why am I really doing what I'm doing?" You can have the right what with the wrong why. So take a moment to just reflect on why you're really doing what you're doing and see what comes up, and that might be s- an indicator of like, "Hey, I need to just dig into that and think through- Mm-hmm... why am I really driving this business, building this business? Why do I really wanna sell it? Why do I really wanna, um, you know, be, be s- as successful I am or have this title or whatever it is? Why am I really doing what I'm doing?" And, um- Mm... and then that allows the opportunity to then start doing the work of like, how do I reframe? How could a... how- what would a reframed why- Mm-hmm... look like? Might be the same what-

[1:34:12] Ryan Warwick: Sure

[1:34:12] Adam Cruz: ... with a reframed why, and that'll help me be more sustainable in the long run.

[1:34:16] Shannon Warwick: That's fantastic, and I think, I, I wouldn't want somebody to do this exercise and go, "I, I suck." You know? Yeah. "I'm j- I'm too broken, and I don't even know where to start." I think instead giving, giving yourself grace and permission- Yeah... to say, "Oh, okay, this, this isn't awesome, and now I realize it and recognize it and I'm calling it out, so now I can move forward. I don't have to stay here." Yeah. "I don't have to move further back." Yeah. "I, I can stop this train wreck."

[1:34:51] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:34:51] Shannon Warwick: Right? And so, um, I think just having a moment of encouragement. Yeah. Like, yeah, there's hope. Of course there is, you know? And, and we would love to partner with you in that.

[1:35:02] Adam Cruz: Yeah. One step that changed a lot of my life over the last few years that's feels really small but feels intentional- Mm-hmm... um, in, in my naturally wired, ambitious, hustle- Mm-hmm... body is- Mm-hmm... I changed my mornings. And one other thing I did is I moved the charger of my phone, um, I moved it away from my bed and moved it, like, at least 10 feet away. So I had to get out of my bed to get my phone, and my phone goes on that thing every day. And then I just made an internal commitment, I'd love for it to say that I'm perfect at this, but, uh, I'm not, but I, I do try to do it more than not, is I don't check anything business related, my email, text me- I don't even look... I, I can see that I have eight unread messages. I don't check them until I touch the grass. So I go out, I do my walk, I touch the grass. I remind myself I'm not in charge, and then I can go to town on my emails and my-... text messages and all the things. But that little, like, morning hack- It's great... for me has... it, it's, like, helped my ambition just a little bit be throttled of like-

[1:36:14] Shannon Warwick: You put a governor on the engine

[1:36:15] Adam Cruz: ... I put a governor on the engine of how I start my day. Otherwise- Yeah... I will lay in bed, look at my phone, and start checking email, and now I'm into work, and I'm not even out of bed, and that's how you start. And most of us start and go to bed that way. Mm. You know? Yeah. And so it's like, what does it look like to start differently?

[1:36:34] Shannon Warwick: That's great.

[1:36:35] Adam Cruz: Um-

[1:36:36] Ryan Warwick: These tools of, of modernity have, have created a real challenge. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. I have a question. Yeah. Um, how do you touch the grass in the winter?

[1:36:48] Shannon Warwick: Just gets-... asked nature out.

[1:36:50] Adam Cruz: Yeah.

[1:36:50] Ryan Warwick: All right. And if there's snow on the ground, you dig through it?

[1:36:53] Adam Cruz: Yeah, yeah, with, uh... The, the nature preserve had these really tall, like, I don't even know what they're called, like, the wheat things- Some things... or whatever.

[1:37:00] Shannon Warwick: The roots or something.

[1:37:00] Ryan Warwick: Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[1:37:01] Adam Cruz: I just kinda brush my hands on them.

[1:37:02] Ryan Warwick: Okay. Okay. So any type of grass. Yeah, any type. Okay.

[1:37:04] Adam Cruz: Whatever your version- Yeah... of grass is.

[1:37:06] Shannon Warwick: It's gotta be wheat grass. Yeah. Make sure you want you-

[1:37:08] Ryan Warwick: That's right

[1:37:09] Shannon Warwick: ... to go. Yeah, uh- We want you to press it and drink it. Yes. Yes.

[1:37:12] Ryan Warwick: All right.

[1:37:12] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Your version.

[1:37:14] Shannon Warwick: Whatever your version.

[1:37:15] Ryan Warwick: Great. Adam, thank you. Um- Thank you, yeah. How can people find you online?

[1:37:20] Shannon Warwick: Yeah.

[1:37:20] Adam Cruz: Yeah. Thehealedhustle.com- Okay... is where they can go and- Great... take an assessment and see where you're at.

[1:37:26] Ryan Warwick: Awesome.

[1:37:27] Shannon Warwick: I think it's good to say, too, again, we're not mental health professionals here, and if something comes up for somebody, don't be afraid to ask for help. Yeah. Right? Don't be afraid to seek professional help. There's n- there's power in that.

[1:37:41] Adam Cruz: That's the unlock. Yep. Yeah. It's the beginning of the unlock, so.

[1:37:45] Ryan Warwick: Yeah.

[1:37:46] Adam Cruz: Thank you, guys.

[1:37:47] Ryan Warwick: Thank you.

[1:37:47] Shannon Warwick: Thank you.

[1:37:48] Ryan Warwick: Thank you for listening to the Worth Beyond Wealth podcast. If you liked this podcast, please like, share, and subscribe. The highest compliment you could give would be sharing this with a friend. Thank you. The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual or any specific security. RW Investment Management, LLC, dba RW Investment Management, is a registered investment advisor. Testimonials given by current clients are not in exchange for compensation. This document is solely for informational purposes. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where RWIM and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Investing involves risk and possible loss of principal capital. No advice may be rendered by RWIM unless a client service agreement is in place. RWIM is not a legal or tax advisor.